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Episode 095: Breaking Relationship Patterns
Episode 095: Breaking Relationship Patterns with special guest Johanna Lynn
Tired of repeating the same mistakes? Dating the same type of person over and over again? Don’t worry! You can break the cycle. Johanna Lynn is the founder of The Family Imprint Institute with an international private practice. She is committed to preventing painful patterns from living out in the next generation. Johanna contributes to building world peace, one family at a time.
Leanne: 00:06 Welcome to Life Lafter Divorce Podcast episode ninety-five. I’m your host, Leanne Linsky. Welcome back to another wonderful week of divorce!
The Boyfriend: 00:17 almost!
Leanne: 00:18 Yeah, so close. Hey, thank you again for joining us on this awesome journey of breakups.
The Boyfriend: 00:28 I like to think of it as new relationships.
Leanne: 00:30 Okay. Yeah,
The Boyfriend: 00:31 Something new, something great, something that’s beautiful that’s come out of something that wasn’t so beautiful.
Leanne: 00:41 Right. So while you’re out there tuning in, make sure,
The Boyfriend: 00:44 she’s like, shut up. I need to get this other stuff out.
The Boyfriend: 00:48 I agree with you. I agree with you. It is a journey of transformation, right?
The Boyfriend: 00:54 Go ahead with your stuff.
Leanne: 00:55 So why we’re transforming this podcast from the intro into the topic in here, tuning in, make sure you rate, review and subscribe. Yeah?
The Boyfriend: 01:06 Yeah.
Leanne: 01:06 and hey, why not check out the website and life laughter divorced.com and click on life coaching and sign up for your free coaching session and then check out the online store. We have some nice light hearted and divorce theme soaps and candles for your bathing pleasure.
The Boyfriend: 01:24 And for the gifts for the holidays because yes, it is that time.
Leanne: 01:29 It’s that time of season. So buy yourself some gifts for the holiday, right?
The Boyfriend: 01:35 Yeah, of course. I do. Everyone does.
Leanne: 01:38 Take that money you would’ve spent on your significant other and spend it on yourself. Why not go for it? Yeah. Speaking of transformation, boyfriend, you know, talking about our histories of dating in the past and how we got together.
The Boyfriend: 01:57 We live our own paths again?
Leanne: 01:58 No, none of time. No. But until we met each other, we dated like, you’re very different from anybody else I’ve ever dated.
The Boyfriend: 02:09 And you, Yes. Ditto.
Leanne: 02:13 Yeah. So how did we get here? Because I feel like for most all my life I was repeating the same thing over and over and over again.
The Boyfriend: 02:23 So as I’ve stated before, a lot of the people that I’ve dated are because of the circles that I ran in and, and they’re all from either work or, or something related adjacent to work.
Leanne: 02:36 For a minute I thought you were literally running in circles. Haha. Well, that could be a problem.
The Boyfriend: 02:42 And you, you, you have been in the, the entertainment and drama fields and comedic field. So I’m sure you dated a lot of those individuals also?
Leanne: 02:57 Not enough. Enough. Yeah, enough of them. I’m trying to think, but. But yeah, before that I, I, even though before I was entertainment, I was in a different industry, but I feel like it was still, no matter what the industry was, the industry didn’t have so much to do with it is the type of person.
The Boyfriend: 03:16 So when you look back on it, same for me. Those people were the same type of people.
Leanne: 03:22 Yeah. It’s like they, they’re very similar. They didn’t seem like they were very similar at first. I was like, oh, this one is different. But they ended. No, not so much. They weren’t. Yeah. So they were very much the same until you, and you’re very different.
The Boyfriend: 03:38 Is that good or bad? So far it’s been good.
Leanne: 03:43 No, no, it’s been good. Like I like if we had said before, like if we had met five, 10 years earlier, it probably wouldn’t have worked.
The Boyfriend: 03:54 No, it wouldn’t have
Leanne: 03:56 because I don’t think we were…
The Boyfriend: 03:58 We wouldn’t have been open enough to try someone that different. Right. Which I, that we’ve looked at it, we’re ready to do that and two the relationship works better because of that, because we are different from all the other people we dated.
Leanne: 04:14 I think we both. Well for me, I know I got to a point where I was like, no, I’m done. And then I met you. You know, did you get to a point where you’re like, I’m just not going to just date for a while?
The Boyfriend: 04:29 I’ve done that several times in my life, just like, man, I’m going not day for a while and then I don’t. And then I get involved in somebody again, it’s a repeat. It’s just basically repeat, rinse, repeat. So
Leanne: 04:41 Yeah. So I’m just wondering what it was that we weren’t repeating this time.
The Boyfriend: 04:47 I don’t know. We got lucky.
Leanne: 04:52 Well I don’t know because. Did you know when you first met me that I wasn’t like other people you dated?
The Boyfriend: 04:56 No.
The Boyfriend: 04:57 You didn’t know until how long into it
The Boyfriend: 05:00 still figuring that out,
Leanne: 05:03 but you know that I’m not like other people
The Boyfriend: 05:05 You’re definitely different than the other ones I’ve dated. Yes.
Leanne: 05:08 Hm. Interesting. I’m trying to think. Yeah, it probably took a while maybe probably until after our first year that you were different. Well, I don’t know if it really, like, I probably knew, but I think
The Boyfriend: 05:24 To trust it.
Leanne: 05:25 To trust it. Exactly. Yeah. It took a good year. So to really trust it. Do you think so – for you?
The Boyfriend: 05:35 from your perspective?
The Boyfriend: 05:36 Yeah.
The Boyfriend: 05:36 From your perspective Because yeah, things that you would say to me. Yeah. But what about you? When did you. Oh, I knew right away you were very different than mine. I didn’t know would work my comedy show. I knew you were very different than all the other people I’ve dated.
Leanne: 05:52 Yeah, well, like what, how did you know, what were the signs?
The Boyfriend: 06:00 that’s hard to say.
The Boyfriend: 06:08 There was a certain type of woman I would date because of where I work in, in what I normally come in contact with and you’re not that
Leanne: 06:21 show. Yeah. So that makes sense. Yeah, I guess it’s kind of interesting because it did take me awhile. I knew you were different, but it took me awhile to figure out that it was actually going to work. Yeah. But I also realize that also in that process made me realize that I needed to change, you know, and we’d even talked about that.
The Boyfriend: 06:48 Yeah. Well we both have changed and we’ve wasted basically to me it’s, we’ve opened ourselves up to allowing that difference in and then seeing if it works. And I think now that we’re here, it works. So let’s just keep going on.
The Boyfriend: 07:04 Yep.
Leanne: 07:05 Now we just gotTa keep working at it. Definitely. Yeah. So there’s that. So it’s kind of. Anyway, the whole point you guys that we’re talking about to this point, there’s a old point that boyfriend and I are kind of talking about these patterns is because today our guest is all about patterns and breaking those patterns. And this was, this one is a topic we really hadn’t talked about with any expert on the pot yet.
The Boyfriend: 07:31 No, no expert, no. We’ve talked about it in our interest before, but never had anyone who’s specifically dealt with this deals with this.
Leanne: 07:39 Yeah. So I found this super interesting. So if you are like the boyfriend and, and I, and you find yourself on rinse and repeat cycle, often this is, this is definitely a must listen because I didn’t even know that somebody lived a really, you know, had this, this expertise in this area and it makes sense because so many people do it. So this was a wonderful conversation and I’m really excited that we get to share our guest with you this week. And so let me just go ahead and make this introduction. How boyfriend? Yeah, go for it. Alright. So Joanna is the founder of the family imprint institute with an international private practice. She is committed to resolving painful patterns from living out in the next generation, as if on repeat. The intention with her work is to contribute to world peace one family at a time. So without further ado, Joanna Lynn. Joanna, welcome to life laughter divorce podcast. Oh, thanks for having me. Leanne. It’s so great to be here. Awesome to have you. I’m looking forward to getting to know you better and hearing about what you have because we really haven’t had any guests like you on the podcast before.
Johanna Lynn: 09:09 Well, I hear that often. I tend to have a bit of a unique approach and so it’s a little bit of, you know, different things we cover then than the average.
Leanne: 09:16 Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess the best place to start is kind of from the beginning and a little bit about you. So do you want to give us some background about what, what got you here?
Johanna Lynn: 09:29 Yeah. Well I think as long as I can remember, I was that kind of kid who was super curious about why people do what they do or say what they say and then I got a little older and that curiosity came with me around why we’re attracted to certain people. even why some habits feel so hard to get away from. And so my natural curiosity led me into, you know, mind body medicine. My earliest career, Gosh, back 20 years ago was as a massage therapist and I really got to understand what gets held in my clients’ bodies, which led me to understanding more about how I was holding some of my own patterns, some of my own stress inside. And as life would have it, I came across one of those crossroads where I’m, I personally had a divorce and went through that kind of massive heartache that happens when the person you thought you’d spend the rest of your life with, you know, it has a run off with the quote unquote other woman and all this sadness and confusion that comes along with that.
Johanna Lynn: 10:36 And so it was at that moment that my life took a real turn into trying to understand, you know, what was my part in the end of our relationship. you know, who was I being that really had him looking outside of our relationship for love, care and attention that, you know, may have really gotten depleted over time between the two of us. And it was maybe the first time I started seeking outside for my own healing. And my own understanding of how things went so far a skew and wouldn’t, you know, it I came across the world,
Leanne: 11:13 can I do today Nice. So, you know, I’m, I’m thinking to myself, that seems like you went on this path and it’s a clear path of like a to get from a to Z. Right? And, and in my mind, I’m going through as I’m following you, as you’re telling your story. And I’m like, oh, I made so many mistakes. Process, you know. So were you, did you feel that when you went through your experience, the support experience that you were in a good place to start? Oh No, I mean I tell that story with God. How long ago was that, you know, 15 years
Johanna Lynn: 11:54 hindsight, you know, in, as any woman, you know, hearing about it a fair and there’s anger and that searing pain and the feeling of betrayal and you know, and my whole world was spinning. And to my surprise, I guess back in the day I would really help held myself or my identity as someone who is fiercely independent and how emotionally I was brought to my knees was quite a surprise. I think so many of the things that I perhaps was emotionally trying to sidestep or plain out avoid, you know, there was no way around that because the pain was too deep and it really led to, with, with the support of the trainings that I ended up taking and the healing retreats I invested in myself. to really begin to have the outlook that I shared for you that the piece about, okay, who was, who was I in that relationship?
Johanna Lynn: 12:56 What, what part was I bringing forward? I think I’ve learned through the years and maybe it’s the wisdom and working with a number of clients I have that if we stay stuck in the, this happened to me, you know, how could he do that to us? We stay in this kind of self replicating loop where we either live that out again in another relationship or we stay hyper vigilant and very guarded. And we’re not really able to trust love or let it in for real and I know that I didn’t want either of those things for myself and and so it was just high time to take a good solid look at who I was being and who I wanted to be moving forward. Yeah. How, how would you, what was the biggest maybe, Aha that you had in your own personal experience? Well, that it actually wasn’t as much about him and I as it was about what was unresolved for each of us.
Johanna Lynn: 13:57 So that looked like my challenged relationship with my mom and the fact that my ex husband never knew his father. And so we were really playing out a lot of family history patterns inside of our marriage. That’s huge. Yet nobody, nobody gets into adulthood without something from their past coming up. I’m sure. Well, that’s it. And I think even today when couples come into my office, the first they want to tell me, you know, what he did and what she said and you know, it’s almost like pulling me into this referee position and what I’m most curious about. I guess it’s because it’s very much influenced by my own experience is what family history do we need to talk about, you know, who are you bringing into the relationship based on some of that past pain and how is it living out today? Yeah. It’s very rarely what we need to resolve between the couple, but instead what patterns are be playing. That’s where we really get some insight for things to change.
Leanne: 15:07 And by patterns are you meaning like habits and behaviors that people are just, do repetitively over and over. Like if this happens that we react rather than respond or this brings on anger, like those kinds of things.
Johanna Lynn: 15:23 So I think it’s a lot more unconscious than that. And so for those of us, even those of us who came from a lovely, amazing, you know, childhood, there were times when, you know, mum had to tend to another sibling or had to go back to work before you were quite ready or you know, mom and dad are going through financial stress and there’s this feeling as a child, I didn’t get quite enough of what I needed in this or that moment. And then we bring that forward into our relationship, expecting that our spouse can somehow fill those empty places as if he could magically know where they were.
Leanne: 16:02 Right? Right. So now do what, like how does this influence our relationship choices on a subconscious level? Like if.
Johanna Lynn: 16:11 Great question, I think it will use a bit of a metaphor. If we think of ourselves like computers, when our life begins, we actually don’t arrive with a clean hard drive. So if you could think about it like sharing and operating system with your parents and your grandparents that very much that family story, meaning, you know, love leads to loss or you know, you can’t trust men or women are going to take everything, you know, whatever these, experiences that live on in a family they become our story to or they can, you know, like it or not, these painful experiences they reside in us. And if we’re not aware of them, they can become our own reference point and something we live out on consciously.
Leanne: 17:02 So are these influences, do these kind of determine what our patterns are then? Very much
Johanna Lynn: 17:10 so. I think that we can all agree that we inherit these physical traits from our parents, you know, like the hair color like mom or the dad. But what’s less talked about and, and really unknown for many people is that we also inherit our family’s emotional patterns. And so, you know, if dad was stoic and nonemotional, you may unconsciously be drawn to men that are that way, but your deepest heart really wants him to be open and forthcoming and you don’t have authentic conversations and yet we wonder why that those were attracted, have these sort of stoic traits.
Leanne: 17:53 So it’s kind of like being a track to like a kind of a comfort level. This is what I know. So this is what I bring to me.
Johanna Lynn: 18:00 That’s it. We’re. So I’m influenced by these. What’s familiar, you know, and you know, sometimes when it feels familiar right away, you can know this will be a relationship with tons of lessons in there for you.
Leanne: 18:16 Hm. Interesting. So that’s kind of like an examples of like people like reconnect with people from high school or old friends or something, right? There’s a sense of familiarity or an immediate bond. Very. You meet somebody from your hometown.
Johanna Lynn: 18:34 Yes, there can be that too. In intimate love though, when there’s that sense of like, oh, you feel so familiar, it might actually be leading you towards some of those pieces that, for example, if, if dad’s not overly emotional and you are attracted to a strong sort of, it was stoic. That word just keeps coming back, that there’s that familiarity. And so while it feels familiar, it actually may not be what your deepest heart wants.
Leanne: 19:07 Mm hmm. Right. That, that makes a lot of sense and that’s kind of where people probably feel like I keep attracting the same person but with a different name.
Johanna Lynn: 19:18 Yes. That’s it. And it’s like, Oh man, who’s that common denominator? Shoot. It’s me. Exactly. How, how would our earliest
Leanne: 19:29 experiences influence how we show up in the relationship? So you kind of touched on that already. I mean, we know how we’re bringing them in because of familiarity, but what about those earlier influence in patterns? Like what are some other ways that they show up in our relationships?
Johanna Lynn: 19:45 These are some of the things I try to shine light on in the work that I do with the clients. The clients that I work with and so a question might look like, did you learn to take care of a sad mom? And so we’ve learned even as a little child, something that might not even be in our conscious awareness to go outside of ourselves and give other people what they need before even really recognizing how much energy we have to give. And you know, another example of that could look like, you know, if mom and dad didn’t stay together, are you, you know, extra guarded about being left or are you willing to kind of do anything in order to keep the relationship alive, just to avoid the pain you saw your mom and dad go through. And so maybe you’re willing to overlook some things that really actually feel like they’re a deal breaker. So I call that, you know, hiving off a part of ourselves just to stay in relationship. So all of us have, you’ll go ahead leanne. Oh No. So all of us have, have these unconscious or very, very early experiences that influence our relationship. It’s Kinda like all all agree to almost anything. As long as you don’t leave me alone. Right. And so you know, that’s not good for either side of the relationship.
Leanne: 21:11 So how do, how do we identify those in ourselves? How do we get to that place? Because like you said, even in your own, you know, divorce, it’s, you know, the first thing is like, oh that person did this to me and so we get out of that victim and we start looking at self aware. But is this something that most people can figure out on their own?
Johanna Lynn: 21:32 Well, I think it really comes down to taking a look at repetitive experiences so that when you shared earlier, we were sort of joking about it, but it’s awfully painful if you find yourself in a relationship with the same person just with a different name. Yeah. And so we know what’s that familiar hook that, that brings you in and whether it’s five dates in or five months in and you realize, Oh, here I am again, afraid of being left or tolerating things that are really not okay with me or giving up what’s important to me. Just to make sure I don’t rock the boat and so you can begin to look at familiar feelings that you have and maybe you’ve been in a longterm relationship, but you find yourself in that same repetitive argument. And so can you distill down, you know, what is this really about? Is it that I’m not being heard? that I feel like my opinions don’t matter so that we can really get at the root of what it’s connected to.
Leanne: 22:40 Yeah. Yeah. It’s kind of like, okay, so you made a good point too, is like if you’re in a longterm relationship and you’re like, we keep going around in circles and having the same argument and it’s really, you know, maybe we’re always having this argument about the dishes, but is it really about the dishes?
Johanna Lynn: 22:56 Exactly, yeah. That said, I, I speak with many women that talk about, you know, intimacy and having that closeness begins way before either of us get into the bedroom. And you know, for, for many women, the sexiest thing inside relationship is to feel like there’s an equality in some of what’s going on in the household to dues, you know, nobody wants to do those dishes, but it feels like you’ve got a teammate, you’ve got somebody on your side so that we’re not so depleted at the end of the day and a big piece in the expansion and feeling really healthy and good and our relationships is to be sure we’re clear and have the ability to ask for what we need. So there’s our own clarity and ourself about what feels right and good for us. And then the ability to ask that from the other person, even if we know it’s going to displease them or lead us into a conversation that might feel a little challenging.
Johanna Lynn: 23:55 You know, that’s a really, that’s something that seems to come up with a lot of people when I talked to them. They, they want something from their partner, right? But never communicated it to their partners. So instead they have these unmet expectations are turning into resentments and it’s like, well, how do they know that’s what you want? We’ll we’ll know, but they should know. No, that’s the problem. Other people don’t have those same thoughts that you do. We can’t assume that somebody else would want the same thing. That’s it. You know, neither neither side are mind readers. And I think even if we take that common challenge that you hear a little further is to really look at what it’s connected to. So what I’ll hear a lot from my female clients is, you know, he’s just, there’s never enough time for our relationship.
Johanna Lynn: 24:46 I’d love to have more time to just laugh and be together more time for love and intimacy. And often what that is, is their very earliest memory is coming down and wanting to play with dad and you know, he’s behind the newspaper and the newspaper of today are these devices we all carry around or you know, if dad was a workaholic, it seems you’ve gotten involved with an a type personality who’s traveling a lot for work or prioritizing work over time together. And so what if we could use our relationships as a little bit of a, a path, if you will, towards Ah, thanks for showing this to me. You know, spouse of mine, I had no idea it was still alive, wire in my body. So now I realize I’d like to do a little bit more time around, are a little bit more attention around what I missed in my relationship with my own father and how do I go back to, sort of fill up those empty places so it doesn’t live like a weight inside of our relationship. Hmm. Right, right. And as you were saying that, I’m thinking, yeah, I’ve heard someone say before, like our relationships are reflection of who we are.
Johanna Lynn: 26:08 So if we’re seeing some of these things and it’s, you know, the little red flag comes up, it’s like, hmm, what am I seeing in myself? That’s it. That’s it. And it’s not to say I’m in that example that it isn’t great for a partnership to be spending more time together, but if we can make it only about that and not this buildup of, you know, he always or you know, it’s like we just recognize our part of it and you know, we clean up that part so that there’s less intensity. Yeah. Yeah.
Leanne: 26:44 And it’s not I. Yeah. And I feel like for me that I’ve been better at this, you know, I’m just thinking of examples like I think it comes with practice and with age when I was in my twenties, you know, it’s kind of like, well it’s them. I’ll move on, you know, and a lot of people, when we, when we hear from people going through a divorce or a major breakup of sorts is equal, once I’m out of this I’ll be better. And then I dunno about you, but you know, what happens when someone goes into their next relationship without this self awareness. I mean, they’re going to continue repeating, you know, the process.
Johanna Lynn: 27:30 Yeah. Yeah. That’s. So, that’s so truly. And I think, you know, we can’t skip over the part of recognizing our feelings, so, you know, having those tiers releasing the anger, you know, and often what’s right on the heels of that is all that grief for what we hoped would happen in this relationship. so that we can actually feel it fully without trying to replace that relationship. If we can notice, oh, that’s just my fear of not wanting to be alone or you know, Geez, I’m 37 and, and I want to have a child, so I got to get out there and we might skip over the importance of going through those feelings. That’s a big part of the integration and become beginning to understand sometimes we learn the most in Jesus. That is not what I wanted. And so in that discernment, it gets us closer to more of what we truly do want.
Leanne: 28:28 Right? Yeah. And so I am wondering is things have changed in like other generations have come out. I feel like some of the roles of people’s expectations of what a relationship is are changing. Right? That’s very true. Right? And, and a lot of times what I hear from people who are somewhat younger than me and I listened to some other podcasts and things they’re feeling is like whatever, move on, like, get over it. Don’t be a baby, toughen up. You don’t have to sit and sulk or do this. And then even with people, you know, I talked to one on one, they feel guilty for having this grief. Like I should be moving on. I should feel better. It’s only, it’s all, it’s already been a month. And it’s like, yeah, what do you make of that?
Johanna Lynn: 29:24 Well, so I think a lot of it is in this sort of swipe right culture. We’ve got no, am I lonely and I’ve been married now for 12 years. I don’t know. Is that slight swipe right or left? I’m not even sure. But there’s this piece around next, you know, you didn’t meet my needs or you didn’t, you couldn’t read my mind or what those invisible needs were. So out you go. And we miss the essential step of looking at what the influences were, both on the are sometimes our ex partner or a current partner and our own. So here I’m talking about what impacts how we connect, how we bond, and also what impacts how we might even navigate the separation or the dicks disconnection of the relationship. And so in doing that, it’s looking at, okay, what didn’t I receive as a little kid that I would have loved to?
Johanna Lynn: 30:24 And so if I can share from my own experience, I was in daycare by six weeks of age. And so that really changes the, the, the, the mother child bond. And so a lot of independence of sparked from that. And that’s where I think I got that fierce independence in my first relationship. That doesn’t bode so well in interpersonal connection. You know, it’s almost like your two roommates living together instead of really building a life together. And so when, until we take a little bit of time to notice, okay, here’s what I know about myself and here’s what I’ve learned in past relationships. And ideally what I’d love to see in a relationship that feels like a good fit so that we’re intentionally making these choices around who we choose to couple up with instead of WHO’s in front of us right now to fill the void.
Leanne: 31:20 Right, right. Yeah. And so like, it’s kind of someone going through a whole list of who I, how I grew up, what it is I want or what it is I need and how do I go about finding it because you’re absolutely right if we don’t give it any thought, I mean we’re just kind of walking around knocking into things and just aimlessly random, right.
Johanna Lynn: 31:47 Much more bound to repeat those painful mistakes again. Yeah. So I’m wondering, you know, with our listeners who are recovering from a divorce,
Leanne: 31:57 do you have, what suggestions do you have so that they can move forward?
Johanna Lynn: 32:04 So I think you just sort of recapped a little bit of that around, you know, looking at our earliest influences, looking at our past relationship experiences. And then what I would add to that is actually taking a bit of inventory of family history. So did mom and dad stayed together? Did mom or dad have a first love before they got together? You know, what happened there? Who left who? I’m beginning to look at the relationships that have gone on inside of your family of origin to know that we know through science that this is very much a part of the imprint in your very DNA, very much guiding you however, unconsciously towards certain relationships that if you could sit and decide, you might think, hmm, I don’t think I want to go down that path because actually I know where it leads. You can save yourself a lot of heartache by taking a really wide view to be able to include all the moving parts.
Leanne: 33:09 Yeah, I’m kind of laughing because it’s always like when we’re younger we always think, oh, I don’t want to be like my mom and dad. And then everyday we find out we’re closer and closer to becoming our own. Our parents, whether we like it or not.
Johanna Lynn: 33:22 That said, and I think the, the more strong we are in the, I don’t want to be anything like my mom. The more we become that way, you know, it’s almost like what we reject, what we push away, we end up embodying A. Yeah. And so those of us who can say, you know, cheese or certain things I really appreciate about my mom and you know, there are certain things maybe she’s still working on herself that were less likely to sort of replicate because we’re not in a judgment mode. We’re really in a observing mode where it’s much more neutral.
Leanne: 33:58 So yeah, because otherwise what we focus on grows. So if we step back and we look at it from a different point of view, that changes it. So that makes sense. Does it ever wondering, okay, so when our listeners are ready to begin a new relationship, what is their best? Do not repeat the same mistakes because this. So even though everything we’ve talked about makes complete sentence, right? So hard, it’s like, okay, yeah, I get it. That makes sense. That makes sense. But even though at times I felt like I had done that or and I’m sure other people can agree, all of a sudden we get into another situation where like, there we go again. That’s it. I thought this was different.
Johanna Lynn: 34:41 Yeah, you’re so true. And so I think the very best way we can safeguard that is to stay as close to ourselves as possible, meaning to remain as embodied as you can. So let’s take an example of, you know, the first few days it’s still in excitement phase and we’re always trying to be on our best behavior. And so just notice in yourself, am I actually in my body aware of those sort of gut instincts of when he says certain things, how does that land with me, our Emma, somewhere outside of my body, just so excited that the conversation’s going so well that I’m actually missing if this is a fit for me or not. You know that I just want this to work so much that I’m overlooking some of the most important questions. And so for the single out there though, we wanted the primary ways we can know if you can weave this into your first day question, this would be great.
Johanna Lynn: 35:46 So for a woman to do really well in her relationships is to feel really soft and open to receive love from her mom. The way she gives it, no, not the way she thinks that it has to come in, but there’s this sort of ease and reciprocity inside of that relationship. And for a man to really thrive in a relationship, it’s optimal if he kind of holds his dad as like the hero of his own story, you know? Oh Yeah, my dad and I, we went to sports games or if anything came up with my friends, I could always go to him. That gives a different kind of strength inside of a longterm relationship. And of course we’re not gonna, you know, bypass somebody who’s had a difficult relationship because, you know, that would be crossing out a whole bunch of people in the dating pool.
Johanna Lynn: 36:37 but beginning to recognize some of the, the patterns are the experiences that might come up inside of that. You got a little bit of a head start and so if you’re out on a date and the guy says, oh, you know, my dad, he, he left us when I was seven. You might want to begin to explore. And so do you have a different relationship with him as an adult? You know, did your mom remarry you? Was there another step, father in the, in the mix. You want to Kinda get into real true conversation as quickly as you can so that you can,
Leanne: 37:18 you know, pull your heart back if need be. Yeah, because it, they say, you know, if a man talks poorly of his mother or of other woman, that’s a bad sign right?
Johanna Lynn: 37:31 Often it is. Yeah.
Leanne: 37:33 And yet so many women will say, I want to be like, well, I want to save you. I want to nurture you. I want to, you know, Oh, you know, I, I can show you a better side of a woman. That kind of thing.
Johanna Lynn: 37:46 I’m not sure there’s anything that’s a faster passion killer then you will being, you know, like the mom to your partner or even worse, the therapist. Yeah, exactly. So we want to be able to have something else available in the relationship other than the opportunity to help him. Right. Because we don’t want to go into the role of being fixer. No, and I think the biggest piece to any longterm relationship is can you look across the table at your partner and really say, I agree to you
Leanne: 38:22 as you are,
Johanna Lynn: 38:24 even the ways you pull away from me. Even the way you might be quick to anger about things. I recognize that it’s about you, your path, your journey. I don’t to take it on if for starting a relationship with visions of fixing them, that’s our guide that we’ve got to go back to the drawing board for ourselves and maybe that starting point is looking in the mirror with. I agree to you as you are, right?
Leanne: 38:53 That’s even harder one. Yeah. Yeah, right. Our best, our best, our best projects should be ourselves. And I’m wondering like, what is it like in your work, what has been the biggest, you know, progress you’ve seen in somebody, you know, what, what has been the most challenging background to or experience to overcome and, and change moving forward?
Johanna Lynn: 39:23 Well, there’s so many, so many sort of case studies come to mind. It’s, I’m always in awe of the resilience of people, you know, some of the things that they’ve been through. And yet they have this willingness for life to go on in a different way, in a good way. you know, I, I think of, of people who’ve I’m just overcome whether it be, you know, sexual violence and learning to trust, love again and to feel safe out in the world. Or I’m one woman in particular had a very, let’s call it complicated co parenting relationship with the father of her sons and the recognition that so much of the pain that existed for them in their marriage and in their coparenting had to do with her roots of her mom leaving the family when she was just two years old. And so there was so much guardedness around trusting love and trusting life that everything between her and her ex was a fight, right down to, you know, they both loved their sons of course.
Johanna Lynn: 40:33 But even that was a fight of different decisions and best of care. And so when she began to tend to that little two year old that still lives inside of her that the grief, the loss, the pain of mum leaving the family that transformed how they were able to navigate coparenting. It’s like she just sat down the other side of the tug of war rope and they could actually talk about what was really at hand, you know, are we sending him to, I don’t know, private baseball camp or is that out of the budget? You know, we’re talking about what’s actually going on. Not all the unspoken stuff that’s underneath the surface.
Leanne: 41:14 Yeah. Well, when, so how do people. I mean, these stories are wonderful because it gives you hope. It’s like I’m not going to be stuck in this constant pattern. And how do people end up coming to find someone like you? How do they find you? Like at what point are you seeing people?
Johanna Lynn: 41:34 Yeah. Well, I think because my work is, outside of the traditional route, I would say most people find me after they’ve been disappointed by let’s say, you know, trying out marriage counseling or trying out talk therapy or thinking, Gosh, I’ve read every book I can get my hands on, but I can’t seem to get out of this pattern. And you know, I love this Einstein quote. I refer back to it quite often that none of us can solve a problem with the same mind that created it. You know, we’re kind of stuck in our own way of looking at things and sometimes we need that objective third party to shine some light just to see it from a new perspective. And so a lot of times people find me through, Gosh, I’ve worked with her cousin, I’ve worked with, you know, a friend of a friend.
Johanna Lynn: 42:25 And a lot of it is really word of mouth. I’ve, in the years I’ve been in business for myself, it really feels to me that the very best quote unquote marketing is just doing outstanding work and when you can give people, you know, parts of their lives back that have really felt all twisted up. there are of course going to share that with their loved ones and their friends. And you know, I’ve, I’ve always had a full, a full schedule just in, in going by that. Yeah. Well, how would you say you’re different from their other, you know, options like how you doing, how are you different? What would that experience be? Yeah. So typically people are so happy that I never asked them. How do you feel about that? The difficult come visiting a therapist and the idea of what it goes into.
Johanna Lynn: 43:18 And so the way that it’s very different is when we start off a session, I use something called the core language approach, which is kind of like a magic tool in my toolbox to really hear the way the client is describing what’s going on so that I can determine what that root causes. Usually within the first 15 to 20 minutes of connecting with the client so that from the very first session we’re able to dive in towards resolution. I’m building kind of a map of their inner world and so I might, I might explain to the client that I, I want to understand your whole quilt so you know, you leanne would be one square of the quilt and I really want to include mom and dad is a square and your grandparents, how four squares so that when I see you in the fullness of the quilt, it’s not just you and how you feel about that because there are so many invisible forces impacting how we show up in life, how much we trust love and even how we’re going to navigate a separation.
Johanna Lynn: 44:29 Are we back up there in the dating pool, you know, the next day or do we take our time to really go through some of the pieces we talked about earlier in the interview? Right? Well, when people. So when people come to you and everything, how long has the process to go through? So I work with people. I have private sessions that are 90 minutes long and typically I will see a client about three times until we moved to resolution. Wow. Sometimes they’re spaced about a month apart so that they’ve got time to integrate each piece. I’ll send them back, I’ll use the word homework. We all got such a strange connotation that I give homework really tools and resources so that they’ve got that in their own life versus having to be reliant on me or someone else to make these shifts and changes because I really love the idea of using technology as a way to make the world smaller.
Johanna Lynn: 45:29 I, I offer a monthly online group where we can get together and talk about some of these topics that many of us are faced with. And so that’s a much more cost effective way to have access to this really life changing work. Oh, and that’s what you were doing this morning before this call? That’s right. That’s right. Oh, okay. So fascinating because I, you know, you said, you know, you see someone three times over a course of three months. Right. And in my mind, I’m like, boy, this must take a really long time in three months is nothing like that. That’s it. You know, if we can avoid repeating some of those painful patterns, it’s, it’s very much a different route then, you know, seeing a therapist for years and feeling like, okay, I’ve come out the other side. Right. Interesting. So do you ever. I’m wondering, do you ever have those repeat customers?
Johanna Lynn: 46:26 Absolutely. I think you know, I’m thinking of one woman in particular where we moved through three sessions and she really came to the place of resolution with what she, the challenge he brought forward. And then I think we saw each other again about a year later, you know, there was this space let she said, Gosh, I’ve come up with this piece or work or previous work did so much for me, but now I want to kind of move into this. And so yeah, absolutely clients will come back and there are certainly experiences where, you know, this has been going on for 20 years and we do in fact need more than three sessions together. And that’s okay too. It’s just usually what’s typical, right? Yeah. Do you ever work with couples together or is it usually individuals? I love to work with couples together. We get tons of work done.
Johanna Lynn: 47:19 The more common complaint I hear though is I wish my husband would come. There’s no way I could drag him here and I reassure each of those women and and the odd time it’s been the man who’s come alone is it only takes one person to generate the change that’s needed to transform the relationship. And it’s quite amazing to sit down and really work with sort of half the couple. Right? Yeah. Because if one person changes their, their behavior, the other person inevitably has to change. There’s. Because the dance has changed, right? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s pretty remarkable. Really mean. Think about it. And it’s so funny because I, I’ve, I know of so many people, that go through a divorce or go through a breakup of some sort and then yet three months later they’re back with that same person with a different name and they’re convinced that it’s going to be different this time.
Johanna Lynn: 48:25 Right. And yeah, so what you’re doing is so fascinating because you’re right, if you don’t take that that time to really reflect and to become aware and say what was my role in this? Because there are, yes, that’s it. And of course the heart health hopes and wishes it will be different and yet if we haven’t been able to really look at our own backyard, we bring those same parts in and it’s all unconscious. It’s all running from behind the scenes. Right? Well, and even to, to the, to the point you, you know, if we keep ending up with this, the same person or the same pattern, you know, a lot of people because however you are raised, you may not know what red flags are, if that’s all you’ve known. That’s it. It comes back to that. It’s familiar. But is it healthy?
Johanna Lynn: 49:18 Is it what you want? Yeah. So a lot of people don’t even know what’s bad for them because that’s all they’ve known. That’s it. So why don’t, I don’t know what good is or I don’t even know what, you know, thinking of my own experience. It’s like, well, this is what I’ve always done. I don’t even know how I would do it different, you know, needing to borrow the tools from somebody else. So, so fast that and that is one of the strongest indicators to really recognize. Okay. I just need to put a little bit of pause on this whole dating side of things to give full attention to me. Yeah. Do you find that when you, when you’re working with people that they don’t. There’s, there’s that fear of loneliness or that they can’t be that like it seems like a big deal to some people to not date.
Johanna Lynn: 50:10 Oh yeah, absolutely. I think the fear of being alone runs many of us, even the most high functioning of us and it has us maybe go head into a relationship before our heart is fully ready just to cover up that, that fear of all on our own and it’s, you know, what is that relationship distracting us from? And it goes even deeper than that too. What’s been held in the body? What does that infant or what does that baby remember about the pain of being alone? And we’re doing anything in our power not to feel that again. And so if we’re able to lift out that part, you know, if we could just for a moment, put that fear of being alone over there on the shelf and then we begin to look at this relationship. A lot of times, some new insights can come to mind.
Leanne: 51:02 And I just have a couple more questions for you on that. Do you find that more people start coming to around this time of year with the holidays?
Johanna Lynn: 51:11 Yes. I think there’s a, it’s a really a tense time when there has been things left unsaid or maybe resentment that have been building and now we’re supposed to spend, you know, three or four days over the holidays just pretending everything’s okay. so yes, my calendar does get quite booked up around the holiday time
Leanne: 51:32 I would imagine. So I would imagine, and I’m just curious, is there, you know, it seems like a no brainer what we do and I really hope that because what you’re doing is, is really kind of going in deep and breaking that pattern and getting people back on their feet and it’s just such an important part of the grieving process. I can’t stress enough in so many people think I don’t deserve this or I just need to move on and forget about it and so many people will just want to skip over this part that’s played such an instrumental role in the rest of their life. If there was one thing, you know, not everybody is good about or ready I should say, not that they’re not good but ready to reach out and really do this. If there were one little exercise they could try at home, do you have something like that that you could recommend? That’s a great question. I think
Johanna Lynn: 52:30 if I look back at what helped me most is sort of finding yourself in a very cozy space where you feel safe. So maybe that’s, you know, tucked into your own bed or you know, you set up your Yoga Mat and you just get your body in a very comfortable position and you allow yourself to notice what it feels like or what it felt like to be in relationship with that person. So you notice, you know, where breath can move easily through the body if there was a lot of ease and connection and the relationship, or perhaps you notice your body feels constricted and defended and you allow the truth of really what the content of that relationship is to come and be explored at the level of your body. I think so much of the time we want to push away what the body wants to tell us.
Johanna Lynn: 53:23 You know, the body never lies. It’s the mind that confuses things in that direction. And so we give ourselves the time to really tune into our own innate wisdom. And if you’re in that grieving space of, you know, I don’t want to return back to that relationship and I don’t want to head into a relationship that feels anywhere as familiar. Perhaps you begin to track what an ideal relationship might feel like for you and maybe the only example is from a movie or from a dear friend and what you’ve observed in her loving relationship. Whatever that is for you. Let the body feel into that experience. I think for some of us, sometimes we get to question, you know, will it ever be possible for me and it’s important to give the body a little bit of space and time to really believe that it absolutely is an assist about the patients and the the listening to your body
Leanne: 54:30 to let it come in to usher that in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A little inner freedom.
Johanna Lynn: 54:38 That’s it. And so you know, if following your body is challenging, you know, maybe you put on a piece of music that just sinks you a little deeper into yourself or you start with a guided visualization that lets the chitter chatter of the mind just settle a little bit. Whatever it is that helps you to get into that access of the wisdom of your body.
Leanne: 55:04 Awesome. So now why our listeners are taking some time off this week or maybe even an hour or two to themselves, they can, they can do exactly that and get centered and feel what that’s like. That’s a fabulous exercise. Thank you so much. Absolutely.
Johanna Lynn: 55:22 Getting this day where we’re all rushing from one activity to the next or checking social media. We miss that. Just, you know, five minutes to go inward and check in to take emotional inventory for us ourselves.
Leanne: 55:33 Yeah, I’d love it. And that you can be doing it anywhere where you are, whether you’re traveling or not or whatever that is. it, you’ll even catch me doing it at a red light. Don’t worry, the person behind you will always haunt green and yes, they will. Well, this is wonderful. I, I think this is super helpful, especially at this time of year when we’re going in to the Trifecta of holidays is I like to call it and you know, we have the added pressure of being around family and these people who’ve influenced so much of our lives, whether they know it or not. And to really kind of find ourselves in what we’re going to be doing, who we are moving forward in our relationships. And I think something for your listeners to bring
Johanna Lynn: 56:24 home with them for the holidays is that the resolution that you can move towards with your parents is actually one of the greatest forces for how healthy your relationship can be. So, you know, that helps me anyways to be a little more patient, a little more openhearted when things get challenging.
Speaker 3: 56:45 Yep.
Leanne: 56:46 Yeah. So we’re working on those, those core core relationships. That’s it. Well, thank you so much for, for sharing all of this with us today. What I’m going to do is put your contact information and everything in the show notes so our listeners have it available to them wherever they find us on iTunes, stitcher, Google, play music, all of that good stuff, and of course on the website so that they can reach out if they have any questions.
Johanna Lynn: 57:12 That sounds great. Leanne, thank you so much for having me. It’s been such a pleasure to chat with you.
Leanne: 57:17 Yes, likewise. So I guess, did you have any last words other than what all the knowledge that you’ve already shared? I hope that people can kind of sit down and tune into that exercise.
Johanna Lynn: 57:30 Oh, wonderful. I hope so too. You know, I think for me what’s helped me look at life and the challenges we can all be faced with is to look at it from a larger perspective and so this idea that if we’re blaming somebody else out there for hurting us, often times where what it boils down to is hurt people end up hurting people and so am I able to hold off and get curious instead of furious. If bill instead of like what happened to that person, why would they do that? We actually soften our tone and lean in like I wonder what would have happened to this person to have them show up with so much aggression or criticism and we we look for the full picture so that we can get out of taking it so personally,
Johanna Lynn: 58:21 right? Yes.
Leanne: 58:24 Oh, there’s a couple of good quotes in there. I have to write down.
Johanna Lynn: 58:30 It really serves us to kind of hold that larger view. You just, you find life is so much to
Leanne: 58:35 easier that way. So true. Awesome. Well thank you again, Joanna. I appreciate it. And and I hope to hear from you soon. This is great stuff. That’s great. Thanks so much for inviting me onto your podcast. I love the title of it. Thank you. You’re very welcome.