Episode 087: They made one last ditch effort before ending their marriage and it worked
Episode 087: They made one last ditch effort before ending their marriage and it worked with special guests Joel & Julie Landi
After dating for nearly 9 years and then being married for almost 7, two highly driven high school sweethearts from New York were planning their divorce. They agreed to give it one last try and attended an intense weekend retreat filled with an abundance of truth telling. They agreed this was it. As they said their goodbyes, Joel asked Julie if they could just start over. A first date turned into a fresh start. Thanks to many lessons and their mastery of conflict resolution, they founded their own company, The Performance Group, to help reconcile and rebuild relationships both in business and at home. No less motivated to create great impact, income, and intimacy, they have learned the secrets of how to have one without forfeiting the others. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.
SPECIAL OFFER: Submit your name and details for a weekend immersion with Joel & Julie to [email protected]
Joel’s LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/in/joel-landi-8208b620
Julie’s LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/julie-landi-97931234/
Leanne: 00:06 Welcome to Life Lafter Divorce podcast, episode 87. I am your host, Leanne Linsky
The Boyfriend: 00:12 And I’m The Boyfriend.
Leanne: 00:12 And welcome back to another wonderful week of
The Boyfriend: 00:12 Divorce. They just keep rolling in and they’re always
Leanne: 00:19 good.
The Boyfriend: 00:21 Wonderful.
Leanne: 00:22 Wonderful. I just want to throw you off. Hey, while you’re out there tuning in, make sure you rate, review and subscribe. Unless of course you’re driving because then that’s dangerous. Don’t do that, but as long as you’re somewhere safe and you’re tuning in, make sure you also check out the website at life. Laughter, divorce.com. And check out our online store. We have light hearted and handcrafted divorce themed candles, all natural and aroma therapy like just for you
The Boyfriend: 00:51 with essential oils in different scents. They’re fantastic.
Leanne: 00:55 They are. You want to check them out? Hey, by the way, it’s October already and holidays are right around the corner, so you want to get on that (hint hint) check it out now. Okay. Alright, so if you’re also on the website checking that out, why not go on and schedule Your Free Life Coaching session with me? That’s right. A one free session per person and you get a full on full coaching session. Don’t miss out on your chance. Do it. And you know what again, the holidays are coming up so why not give that to somebody? It’s better than a coupon.
The Boyfriend: 01:32 Yeah, it actually is. I’ve seen wonderful work. You’ve done. So this is. Yeah.
Leanne: 01:36 See he’s a keeper. You guys alright. An endorsement. So today boyfriend, you know, relationships and keeping them and sticking around. Not always easy to do is. It can be difficult. They can be difficult. And have you, well you’ve never been married and we’ve kind of talked before. You haven’t gone to counseling or anything through any of your relationships?
The Boyfriend: 02:05 No, not because of them, right? One, hold on that not to save them,
Leanne: 02:10 right. Maybe to recover from them, recovering from them but not to save them. And so like I think back of when I was going through my divorce, I talked to friends and I talked to a marital counselors and, or a marital counselor. Say One both times. She was happy to see me come back and I even went and spoke to somebody at my church and I’m not a religious person, but you know, when you’re going through tough times like that, you really start reaching out for answers, trying to figure out what to do.
The Boyfriend: 02:46 Yeah. You want someone professional, someone who’s empathetic, someone who’s trying to solve a problem, trying to help you through this problem, not solve it, but trying to help you through the problem or the issues, a you reach out to anybody.
Leanne: 03:00 Right and well, and that’s actually how I found my marrow cancer was through the church is their recommendation and she was great and it was interesting though because it wasn’t what happened to be a woman obviously. And when my husband came to that session with me, he was very uncomfortable. He walked out so
The Boyfriend: 03:22 I could see that because now you feel like you’re getting ganged up
Leanne: 03:26 because there’s two women in the room. Would you?
The Boyfriend: 03:28 I would imagine a woman would feel the same way, right?
Leanne: 03:31 Probably Room Room. I wouldn’t feel that he would totally understand what I was experiencing or where I was coming from. Right. You know, and so I can see that. And you know, when we talked to other people, you know, we’ve talked to other guests on the podcast about counseling and stuff and it’s hard to find just the right person that
The Boyfriend: 03:54 is a, it’s, you have to find the right fit. And I know that sounds very cliche, but if you can’t find the right personality to help that works with your personality and your partner’s personality, it’s not gonna work. You’re not going to be successful in, in your, in those sessions.
Leanne: 04:11 Correct. Because you’re going to close up and shut down. So I’m wondering, you know, outside of therapy, that’s one thing that’s like the Goto that’s probably very most popular. There’s also the church which a lot of people or synagogue or whatever religion or spiritual toll beliefs that you have, maybe you go to that specific community to, you know, help people, guide you through a process. But the, the rub on that is if one of you is one faith and another, the other is another faith, where do you go? You know, I am, I don’t know, you know. And then what are your other options? Like are those the only two options out there besides you getting into like a mediator or something? Yeah,
The Boyfriend: 04:58 once you get to a mediator then it’s, then it’s why almost done,
Leanne: 05:01 but it’s, then you’re basically separating everything out. Right? So I don’t know. I think back to when I was going through this one, other people that were really around to talk to, it’d be family or friends.
The Boyfriend: 05:13 Right. And that’s something you normally don’t want to get into. You don’t want to be airing your dirty laundry per se to your family and friends. Do you.
Leanne: 05:20 And depending on where, what kind of situation your friends are in, I mean if, if you’re a young couple and most of your friends are single, they’re probably not going to encourage you to stick around. Right? Yeah. You know, so what other options are there? Well, I’m glad you asked boyfriend because this week I happened to have the pleasure of talking to not one but two people who offer coaching for couples, but get this, they do it together. It’s a husband and wife team and they coach couples together in the same room at the same time. Wow. Yeah.
The Boyfriend: 05:56 So the show you get, you get another couple who are coaching you as a couple to get through this.
Leanne: 06:03 Yes. So that seems smart. Yeah. How awesome. Because they’re also not therapists, so there are a lot of people who are like, I don’t believe in that. I’m not going to a therapist or something like that. There are other people who are like, I’m not religious at all and I wouldn’t go to that. What an awesome option to go and get people who are a couple. Right. So they get it and there’s no one of each. So like you don’t feel ganged up upon.
The Boyfriend: 06:36 And what’d you tell their story? They’ve been through this. So they have their own.
Leanne: 06:42 That’s, it’s an impressive. Yes, exactly. Because you know, you think about it, well, why not go to, you know, what am I going to do with a couple? Like I think about like my parents, they’ve had a great marriage, I’ve been married forever, hard for them to understand my experience of going through divorce or being in those situations, you know, not that they wouldn’t be there for me or hadn’t been, but they don’t see the same kind of thing. But what I love about this coaching team is they’ve gone through all of this and they’re going to share the story. So I’m not going to repeat it all, but it was just wow hearing, hearing there, what they’ve gone through and then what they’ve turned it around into is remarkable. So before, okay, boyfriend, before I go into the full, a formal introduction of our guest today, I want to, I’ll alert you guys now, everybody, all of our listeners that this is a really, really great conversation that I had with our guest today.
Leanne: 07:46 And I’m really excited about it because they had made an extremely generous offer. So in this, in this, in this episode, they’re going to make an offer at the end and all the details I’m going to include in the show notes so that you can see it on itunes where it has a description of where the show is. If you don’t see it there, go to our website at life laughter, divorce.com, and I will put a box on our front page with the details and how to contact them because they’re making a phenomenal offer. So if you’re in a relationship and this hits home with you, you’re going to want to reach out. So that said, let me go and tell you about our guests today. After dating for nearly nine years and then been married for almost seven, Joel and Julie Landy were planning their divorce, born and raised in New York.
Leanne: 08:35 The two are highly driven, high school sweethearts, who everyone thought were the perfect couple. They were two very strong willed individuals that set out to see their dreams come true with the attitude of winning at all costs and their mantra, you helped me achieve my dreams and I’ll help you achieve yours, not realizing what that would cost them. Joel and aerospace physiologist and officer in the US Navy at the time of their pending divorce was planning to move on base and pursue his dream career. While Julie, a marketing professional, was going to keep their home in San Clemente and pursue hers. After many efforts with therapy, religious organizations, and personal development and communication workshops, they had decided it was time to call it quits, so in an attempt to clean the closet, they agree to go through one last conflict resolution process offered through a church and attempt to settle the dispute outside of the lawyer’s offices and end things amicably and less expensively.
Leanne: 09:38 To their surprise, that tough face to face time of truth telling and vulnerable conversation opened up space for Joel to ask Julie is she wanted to start over and after going on a first date again, they decided to rebuild and they spent the next 17 years rebuilding their marriage and helping others to do the same all around the world with their church. In 2013, they decided to begin their own conflict resolution company and the performance group was born. They currently enjoy helping couples from around the world and their new mantra is if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. So without further ado, Julie and Joel landing, Joel and Julie, welcome to life after divorce podcast.
Joel Landi: 10:53 Great to be here.
Julie Landi: 10:54 Thanks Leanne. So fun.
Leanne: 10:56 Yes. Excited to have you here. I really am curious to learn about both of you and how you came together. And what I. What I want to start out with, if it’s okay with you, is to find out a little bit about what you guys do and how you do it. So I guess that might be a fun place to start.
Joel Landi: 11:17 That’s a great place to start.
Leanne: 11:18 Excellent. Fill us in.
Joel Landi: 11:20 Okay, great. Well, since my wife is the rock star in the couple, I’m gonna let her talk about her
Leanne: 11:27 So far I like this already because you’re like giving the accolades to your wife right off the bat. So Joe, you’re earning points.
Julie Landi: 11:35 No, he’s a sweetheart. We, I am a very blessed woman but we are, you know, we have a parent company called The Performance Group and one of the divisions of our company is called power couples and we help very driven couples who are driving each other apart, come back together and find a way to really, work together, empower each other and bring out the best in each other so they really can see something incredible on the other side. And we’ve worked with couples that are right at the brink of divorce. When therapists tell them there’s no way – leave, leave run for your life. We are really turnaround specialists for sure. And we like to call ourselves the third option in that if they’re not interested in, they really don’t want to go down the route of the attorneys and they really don’t want to go down the route of therapy. Actually we’re like the fourth option. If they really don’t want to go down the route of religion. We are the place to go.
Leanne: 12:40 So Nice. Yeah. So how do you. Okay. So if someone has already been to therapy, they’ve already, they’re already ready and agreed that divorces their only way to get out of the situation. how, what do you do? Like is this magic? I’m curious. Yes,
Joel Landi: 13:08 that’s a funny question because we tell people there is science in it and then there’s the intersection of science and that, you know, we have learned a lot about the brain and we understand hormones in chemistry, like we understand in science has been teaching us for decades, you know, ideas about the, the limbic brain, the prefrontal cortex. Like we know there’s a right time to say difficult things. And so we tell people like when they’re like, hey, can you help us? And what does that mean and how do you do it? You know, our responses, there’s science and there’s art, you know, the sciences where there’s a rigid set of ideas. We’re not rigid in them, but there are laws like gravity when you apply them to any problem they work. The art is when and how to apply those things in issues that are often always hotly charged, highly emotional. And you’ve got two people that see the same thing from two very, very different places. And so as much as we want to tell people, look, we’d love to share a bunch of set of ideas with you and wave a magic wand. We know that these ideas really do work, but the fact that you’re dealing with a conscience, you’re dealing with parts, you’re dealing with people who feel betrayed. you know, so these are delicate matters. And so, there’s, there’s, there’s, there’s art, there’s knowing when to push, when to pull. And that comes in time. And Julian, I’ve been confident, we’ve helped, we’ve helped thousands of couples and we don’t shy away from saying that, but we literally have thousands of couples over two and a half decades. And so we’ve developed a deep bench and as Malcolm Gladwell will say, we’ve got our 10,000 hours of really dealing with people in very, very charged angel. But we’ve been very fortunate to have extraordinary results.
Leanne: 14:54 That’s incredible. Ten thousand hours. Yeah, that’s a lot of hours. Which makes you an expert field, if I recall correctly. And in thousands of couples. I mean, so. So when people come to you and you have a science, where do you start with this? Like, like you say there’s two parts.
Joel Landi: 15:15 Yeah. Well the starting point of course is the story in the backstory and, and everybody needs to have a space where they can, they can tell the story. and so, you know, when we get together, we give our clients a series of exercises and assessments that allow them to explain to us, you know, where they’ve come from and where they’re at and why, you know, why, why have you hired us? And so the starting point is just kind of understanding of their perspective. And then once we begin to understand their perspective, we begin to ask questions and in a relatively short amount of time, we begin to uncover things like, there are just gaps or their beliefs or their ideas that often people hold that are, although they’re true to themselves, they’re not necessarily empirically true, meaning they’re not. Sometimes they go against what other people would say would be logic. And so there are just things that we walk them through in terms of, in a sequence of ideas and we help them find a clarity by untangling a difficult issues. And I think that’s one of the greatest value adds really is getting in the middle of often highly charged issues. Asking the right questions, providing the space, providing the rhythm for people to come out from underneath these very painful, thoughts and experiences and help them find a way forward by reframing what had happened and putting it in a positive, perfect teacher chance.
Leanne: 16:50 Right? Do you do so? So as this. Oh, go ahead.
Julie Landi: 16:54 I was just going to add to that Leanne, just because I’m. One of the unique abilities that Joe and I have is obviously not only doing it for so long, but we do it as a couple. Like that situation is so often that you’ll go to a therapist or a, you know, which is, which is often helpful, but your, you’ll pick a therapist that’s either a man or a woman or you know, someone, a spiritual leader that’s either a man or a woman and one part of the couple will feel either not heard, ganged up on a whatever. You know, there’s already a barrier to that. So we have found that by working together as a couple with a couple, we really lower the defense mechanisms. People tend to feel heard, like the male partner will hear things from me or the female partner will hear things from Joel that they wouldn’t ordinarily here and will just the female part and muscles safer with me perhaps than with Joel in the mail to him, they feel understood.
Julie Landi: 17:56 And so there’s an incredibly added benefit. It’s like it’s having to listening ears from both perspectives you’re going to hit. And I think that’s one of the reasons we have such a high success rate with being able to untangle, as Joel said, some of these really difficult issues. Everything from, you name it from these trail in terms of infidelities or you know, abuse or you name it. Just really, really difficult situations that have turned around. We have couples that have turned their lives around in enormously because I think they have felt safe enough already enough and then I’m given the tools to go forward.
Leanne: 18:39 Yeah, that’s a big deal because you walk in and we instantly feel represented and not. I’m, I haven’t really heard of anybody going to any sort of wouldn’t. How do you classify this as counseling?
Joel Landi: 18:56 You know, it’s really more traditionally what we would call coaching and counseling slash therapy and coaching. These are well embraced definitions and this is a working definition that Julian, I used, is that a lot of times in therapy, you know, you look backwards, you know, you look at your family of origin, you begin to try to trace some points in your past and your past narrative and you begin to try to understand the dysfunction and you are working with basically origins of problem in a little bit different with coaching and consulting. specifically with coaching. You know, coaching is, in fact we’re having a couple come over tonight. We did it, an immersive exercise with them a couple of months ago and it’s, it’s round two of what we did, which we can explain the immersion concept later in the podcast. But, but basically it’s, it’s round two of what do you want for yourself and for each other as a couple in the future. And so, you know, the coaching element is more of, of, of getting people to be courageous enough to articulate, you know, if this is what I would want in a future relationship, in a marriage and an ideal monogamous relationship, this is what it looks like. This is what it sounds, feel, smell, taste like. Okay. And then where Julie and I come into the, into the pictures, okay, then we’re going to reverse engineer that and we’re going to put all of the values, beliefs, all the expectations, all the guard rails, whatever it takes to get to that goal. That’s what we want to help you guys build. And Oh yeah, by the way, along the way, are you going to Oregon to visit some of these dysfunctions? Are you going to hear maybe certain terminologies that you might be familiar with? You know, yes. But wait, we’re not counseling, we don’t look for problems. We look for a future and we build it.
Leanne: 20:43 Right? So this is much different approach. Also different in the fact that you’re both present, right? And how many other people do something even similar to this that we’re both, you know, done by a couple, the coaching partnership,
Joel Landi: 21:01 we don’t know the whole concept of counseling and psychology in no way do we ever undermine or diminish the power of that discipline. And there’s been times when we told people, look what you’re describing, you probably actually do need some type of some type of therapy. So we work with a certain demographic of people, you know, we work with people that let me just take the gloves off. They’re angry, they’re hurt, they’re successful, they’re driven, they’re convinced of what they know is, they’re frustrated, they’re cynical of, they don’t want to be taken advantage of. They don’t want their time wasted. And a lot of the people that we work with, they’ve done therapy, although they’ve seen the value in it, they don’t want to do it again. So that’s, that’s where we come in as the alternative.
Leanne: 21:54 I love it. I love it. And it’s. And I like how you said, it’s forward thinking. It’s where do we go from here, which is super important to acknowledge. And, and so once these people come to you and they, and they get both of you in the room, how does that work? As they’re sharing their stories and they come in angry with all of those emotions. I mean, it is scary at times. How do you prepare for something like that?
Joel Landi: 22:23 Good question. Not Scary at all. We’re used to it. And because, you know, I think at the end of the day, Julie and I really would like people, you know, we were, we were really wounded, very hurt, really hurt each other, were unfaithful to each other, but we want the road less traveled. And we went down for probably a 14 day period, a walk that not many people go through, but we really took a hard deep examination of ourselves and instead of blaming each other, we really took responsibility and we healed a very, very badly damaged marriage. And so we understand anger and tears in rage and bitterness. We understand all those emotions in that room. And so we’re not at all put off by them because that’s what happens when people get hurt and they can’t get out of being hurt.
Leanne: 23:14 So I’m guessing maybe the first few sessions are a little bit more intense until you move past each person getting to tell their version of the story.
Joel Landi: 23:23 You know Leanne it’s different for each couple. People come in differently. It’s not uncommon that one person is further ahead that you know, they’re the person that’s in all the self help books, they do the meditation, they go to Yoga, the other person’s just grinding away at work trying to figure out how to make life work in a different direction. And so people come in differently. They, they lead differently. The power. Do you know, Julie mentioned something earlier about you as a couple. You know, we have certain teaching tools and we have a bunch of them. A lot of them are industry standard tools. Some of them are unique to our company and their proprietary. But you know, for instance, you know, most people will understand the graphic. There’s a picture of a, of an elephant with five blind men. And you know each, each man, a blind man is touching the elephant in a different place. And of course the whole element or the whole concept of that tool and teaching is a in, in a lesson in life, which is if you ask each person to describe the elephant, you know they each has a different impression and a different experience of that elephant, but they’re all correct right now. The power in the room at that moment is when you have two people like Julie and I who are in a very good place where very settled in, in centered in our emotions, being able to challenge people when they think they have all five positions on the elephant nailed. And that’s the challenge when you’re hurt, is you think that you have every, you know, you become so sure of yourself when the reality is you’ve got to find the humility to say, you know what? This is my reality. This is my truth. But there are gaps in this story that I do not yet understand and I need help seeing.
Julie Landi: 25:01 I think the, the essence of that story is that those five blind men are absolutely correct, but they’re in completely correct in that there is a lot more to the story that needs to be heard and needs to be learned and that’s where we help people. That’s the additional facets or viewpoints that we give people is that that they are a lot of times very right, and that’s why they are where they are. You know, they’re solid people, but they’re very and they’re very right and very convinced of what they knew as Joel mentioned, but we helped them realize that what they know is incomplete. It’s not wrong. It’s not inaccurate, but it’s incomplete and there’s more to the story and that opens a whole floodgate of possibilities.
Joel Landi: 25:44 Yeah, and imagine being in that room, Leanne, you know we’re at that moment, you know again, because now it’s not two people arguing for people in a room and you’ve got two people saying, look, when people are expressing their pain and their position, they want to be affirmed. Imagine the power. When you say to a person in that moment what you’re saying is true, but it’s not completely true. There are other elements of this storyline that we have to allow to be put into that truth.
Leanne: 26:13 Yeah, that’s. That’s a fantastic visual and example of the five blind men with an elephant because you’re absolutely right. There. Truth is true, but it’s not a. it’s not complete. There’s. There’s definite gaps and what a great visual because that’s exactly what’s happening with couples. They’re only seeing their sides of it, so once you get through this and they start having those Aha moments like, oh my gosh, like I didn’t consider all of these other possibilities, other things that were happening at the same time in this same story, how do they, where do they go from there? How do you start setting up what they want?
Joel Landi: 26:54 Well, once we believe that they’re moving out of this angry, you know, we do move them down a continuum of reconciliation. We show them that, look, here’s what’s possible for a couple this. These are levels of forgiveness. No, you mentioned something I think. I don’t know if that’s before we went live, but you know, I mean, hardship is, is, is tough and, but when you learn from something that really, really wounds you, then you know, it’s like when people are telling a story in a public speaking, you can tell when someone’s telling their story and they’re, and, and it’s hard, it’s hard what they’re saying from their past, but you know, there’s a twinkle in their eye and there’s a small smile on their face, the sleeve learned what they needed to learn from that bad experience and they’re stronger. and that’s where we want to move people to. We want to get them to that place of where the actually, what we would even call it, a biblical context. It would be wisdom, you know, what was the wisdom in that experience going forward so that you’re stronger and better for your future.
Julie Landi: 27:57 We do really, as Joel mentioned, go through these continu the continuum of reconciliation. So literally with each piece, we have them list out what each issue is that they have a problem with, what the dynamic, a circumstance situation and action away, whatever it is with the Qa within their, you know, relationship. And so we will literally work through each and every issue to find reconciliation, to bring forgiveness and to learn the lesson so that they literally do come out better. On the other side, you know, and this is not, this has this is separate and apart from whether they even want to stay together or not, we don’t, we don’t try and force things and we don’t predict an outcome. As I mentioned to you offline before to Leanne with our own story when we entered into our reconciliation talk, it really wasn’t necessarily to fix the marriage, at least not from my perspective in our, in our situation.
Julie Landi: 28:54 It was to clean things up so that I could make a decision with a clear mind about where I’m going next. And, emotionally the mind, once the mind is in a state of negative emotions, decision making becomes very difficult. You don’t make good decisions for yourself in that space, and so I knew that most people know that, you know, you do things in anger and that you know that you regret later or in fear or whatever that you will regret later, but what’s one of the main reasons we do the reconciliation, that big section of reconciliation is to be able to give people clear mindedness so that they can make solid good decisions for themselves individually before they even go down to couples road, but so that they make good quality, healthy decisions for themselves going to, to go forward and decide what they want to go forward with. And then as John mentioned, we go through a whole lot of assessments on their values and their strengths and passions and what they want in their future. That that’s an, that’s the other part. But
Joel Landi: 30:00 yeah, to add to Julie’s in a sequence. So once we’ve, you know, we’ve done the heavy lifting, we’ve had the strong emotional talks. People have come to their moments of clarity. Then there’s a form of reconciliation. Then the fun stuff begins because then we’ll start to begin what we call engineering a preferable future and like for instance with every couple we work with, we have our own in house exercise. We call the big eight and the big aid is basically defined for us your personal definition for words like our wealth, intimacy, sex, and there’s eight of them and they’re there. They’re extremely powerful when you have two people in a room and it’s interesting that when people come up with these definitions, when we’re doing it in this, again, this foreperson context for some people to realize, my gosh, our definitions are so close and like we really want the same things or just the opposite. My definition of power or wealth or sex is very different than yours. How are we going to commit to building a bridge between those two definitions?
Leanne: 31:02 Yeah, that’s, that’s huge. Do you know just defining what someone needs and what that means to them like that. Such clarity and because they may be saying the same thing but meaning two completely different things and going back just for a second on the forgiveness, we’ve had several guests come on with their how empowered they felt after they could forgive somebody even though maybe they were with somebody in an abusive situation or something like that, but finding their own way to forgive and let go and move on with that. The gave them like a whole new life. Yeah. So I love that. That’s part like, that’s right up there. That’s like what the second thing you do. I think his work on the forgiveness of each of those issues so that people can move past to get to the other stuff.
Julie Landi: 31:58 Yeah, that’s a big deal. We spend a lot of time doing that and so no issue is too small. No issue is too big because we’ve been in the personal space. We’ve had it all. But we will methodic and patiently worked through it all.
Leanne: 32:11 Yeah. That’s awesome. I would love to hear, I’m sure you have some really, really interesting success stories or experiences that people have had.
Julie Landi: 32:23 Yeah. Well, I mean, I’m just not even sure where to start. There’s just so many faces and names flashing behind, careful about being confidential. That’s one thing. Highly confidential and our clients really appreciate that, but I certainly can share stories and most of them are like, please share whatever you need to about us outside of our name so that you can, you know, tell, you know, help anybody else. But one couple in particular I was thinking about is this a couple of years just amazing, amazing guy and very, very talented woman. She’s an architect and he’s piloting so you that much, but they just were had a really fiery dynamic, really contentious dynamic and a lot of it came from his abusive background and she just was really strong willed and determined and very ambitious. And we started working with them and they were definitely on the verge of divorce.
Julie Landi: 33:21 Absolutely. Going to get a divorce. There’s no question about it. And she was going to actually check into a center for abused women. Like that’s how bad it was. Wow. Never know it by looking at them because they were, she’s dunning and he’s handsome, you know, start of a guy and they didn’t look like the battered and beaten or abused or type. But really, truly what happened was they, work through their issues, just as we said, we heard them out, you know, we helped them, they had a spiritual background. So we help them connect more, understand more spiritually in their relationship to their creator and who they were individually and then understand and resolve each of their issues. And as a result they, it was so beautiful because they’re preferable future was, you know, really being able to help others, but they also renewed their vows with us.
Julie Landi: 34:13 Not with us, we didn’t do it, but with them be present and ended up having their third child and are now just a delight. I saw a picture of her on facebook the other day and it was just her birthday and he had put together the most stunning birthday celebration for her and us three girls now. Wow. Your daughters now. And so, it’s just a love, love, love hearing. And being a part of stories like that. And so obviously it saved an entire family’s future in that situation. It saved the couple’s future, saved enormous amount of money because it would have been a very expensive divorce. And I mean, and, and you know, psychologically and emotionally, these two individuals,
Joel Landi: 34:56 we also have a couple right now, we have a woman who’s married, three, three very successful kids. Husband owns a company, she’s a overseas right now getting a certification that she’s wanting to get for probably the last 10 years, but two years ago they were on the verge of divorce. And the husband being very driven. I’m more of an engineer, had a really hard time separating out this idea that, you know, he could be so successful in business and the business people, but be profoundly challenged in his own personal marriage. And so, you know, again, going back to earlier about the whole idea of mindset shift. And I was fortunate enough to write a book a rewired which is on Amazon. And I’m, I just in that book talk about the power of reframing ideas and but you know, having to set those ideas properly, you know, in a perspective so that you can change the way you think and that therefore the way you act.
Joel Landi: 35:57 But that couple is an absolute success and they’ve been, been really, really, really a huge proponent. So then a third couple and then we’ve got our high flying jet setting entrepreneurs, they’re the couple that go, you know, the burning man every year and they are just absolutely lighting it up. They just had their third child actually a month ago and they’re probably some of our biggest evangelists here in southern California. But they too. you know, it’s funny thing with wealth it, you, you, you tend to create your own rules. The higher you go up in the pyramid of wealth, the easier it is to really create your own rules. And and that’s in some ways, you know, that sounds exciting, but in other ways you create, you know, contrivances in marriages and in agreements that really on the front end seem exciting. But really come back to destroy you and destroy trust. And so we’ve worked with some really interesting, super interesting people and have had extraordinary results.
Julie Landi: 36:55 Wow. It sounds like it. I mean, and it also sounds like a things are going so well that people are getting pregnant right shortly thereafter, but it’s happening over and over and over again. And it, it’s, it’s funny because, you know, just to back up above the other couple, it was so, so sweet. They were told by their, she was told by their, her therapist to lead him run as far and as fast as you can get away. When we first started working with them, and this is obviously prebaby here, but but it was, and that’s where they were at. And that’s the saddest, most heartbreaking thing is when they’ve been given a death sentence in one of the two parties has been labeled. You’re damaged goods, you’re abused, you’re an abuser, you’re narcissist, your codependent, you’re something like that. Something that is a label that puts a ceiling on them.
Julie Landi: 37:50 And so that’s one of the things that’s a pet peeve of mine personally, is when people are labeled like that, then they feel like it’s, it’s, a diagnosis and that’s all they can do. That’s all that they’re never going to be. There’s never gonna be any change. And so being able to work with these different couples and breakthrough these diagnoses and let go of these labels and realized, wow, you know, he’s not a narcissist. He’s, he’s an incredibly strong, loyal, amazing man. And this woman is empowered now to stand in her right spot as his queen, as his, you know, the woman that belongs in his life and now she knows how to be assertive in the right ways and loving and respectful so that this relationship functions in right normal, healthy way. And they are. That’s the couple that we’re talking about now.
Julie Landi: 38:38 That’s so incredible that literally they’re very, one week after their third child was born, they invited us to dinner and a concert to celebrate their first night out. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And so it gives me goosebumps when I think about the work that we get to do because it’s just transforming families and communities. Because the other thing is when, you know, you deal with divorce all the time, but a lot of times there’s a divorce in a situation. It can create a division even in a community. And I don’t mean necessarily a geographic community, but in a friendship circle or. Absolutely. So we help keep communities together. We see. Yeah.
Joel Landi: 39:18 Yeah. And will add one thing too that Leanne that Julie touched on this idea of labels. you know, we’re not pompous enough to sit here and think that we’re going to overturn six decades of psychological terminology. We do understand that there are certain conditions that have certain descriptions. But again, going back to our paradigm of thinking, you know, even the neuroscientific community has, has shown us the power of the human mind. One of the most powerful things that you can put in your mind is, I am. I am, as one of the most powerful things you can say to yourself on any given day under any given circumstance. Because this is what neuroscience has taught us, and so if you are saying that you are a condition, then sadly enough you’re fulfilling that condition because you were wiring your brain in a such. Yes and so meaning meaning I could say I am a child of God that has a problem with x. that’s a true statement, right? What I’m saying is in my identity, I’m a son of God, but I have a challenge in my life, but my identity in this context is I’m, I’m a son of God. Where the challenge. Imagine reversing that saying, I am a fill in the blank, alcoholic. I am whatever the human mind is so profoundly strong that it must elect a computer. It must fulfill what you tell it. It is, and again, I’m not making this as this is what the neuroscientific community has taught us. And so again, going back to our approach, we’re just very careful to steer people away from labeling and steer people more toward what they desire for their future and how do we build it. And of course along the way, yeah. Are we going to have to have tough talks and confront dysfunction? Yes, we will.
Leanne: 41:24 Right now. It makes a lot of sense. The mind is a powerful thing in mind and how we, how we frame our story. Right. So I, so I’m, I’m wondering like, we had touched on it briefly and I just wanted to fill in a little bit of color here. You guys have been married. How long? 30. I’m sorry.
Joel Landi: 41:47 Thirty years.
Leanne: 41:48 Thirty years. Because you are your biggest success story.
Julie Landi: 41:53 Yeah. Well we like to think so
Leanne: 41:56 you walk, you don’t just talk the talk, you walk the walk. And so at what point in your marriage was that? That kind of, Oh my, this is where it’s either gonna make it or break it.
Joel Landi: 42:11 It was right around the seven years, you know, contrary to cliches. It was right around the seven year mark that that’s it. We were wanting to divorce. We were bitter, we’re angry and we built it all wrong. It was built on a model with win at all cost. I’ll speak for myself. I was highly, I was selfishly ambitious. I can see as being strong with being rigid, I was self seeking,
Joel Landi: 42:36 I didn’t have any real great mentors and role models at that time in my life, but we, we really had to completely tear down that we use that terminology in our coaching practice, but our marriage was a tear down, meaning, you know, that’s what you do with the house when you want something completely new, you don’t renovate it, you tear it off the foundation and you build something new. And in our moment of crises, we were able to, to be guided by other people who we trusted, who we at that time were very confident in their competencies, were able to find forgiveness. But more excitingly we were able to rebuild something we wanted all along. We just didn’t know how to build it.
Leanne: 43:15 Right.
Julie Landi: 43:16 Yeah. And we had nine years of dating prior in living together, prior to even being married. So we had a lot, a 16 year history that we were undoing. Wow. Yeah, that’s a long time. It’s a very long time. People feel like you can’t teach old dogs new tricks, but as science has taught us that the brain can be rewired.
Leanne: 43:36 So yeah, you went through this whole experience and then since that rewire. How many years have you been together? I’m trying to do math 23.
Julie Landi: 43:45 Well actually it’s 24. Okay. Yeah. Would it be four years in July that we actually went through that process, our own immersive experience that turned our life around.
Leanne: 43:55 Wow. That’s huge. No wonder so many couples are coming to you.
Julie Landi: 44:00 Yeah. Actually we fell into this. We really did because we just, of course, you know, whenever you have some sort of major a miracle happen in your own life, which really was, you can’t help but tell people and plus everybody around you knows you’re dynamic and then when things shift so radically, they’re like, what happened to you? You know, if you lost 40 pounds or something, they’re like, what happened? How’d you do it? You can’t. People can’t help but ask when we’re now in love and we were once so cold and you, can you.
Leanne: 44:32 Can you tell me a little bit like what was the reaction from the people around you? Like did they see the change or did you tell them or how did that work?
Joel Landi: 44:37 Well, yeah, it was really interesting. Is that right? At that time we made a life decision, you know, after we went through this experience, we made a decision that we were going to not going to give back, right. We had lived for ourselves and now it was time to give back and help other people help our community. And so we believe after going through this experience and seeing the profound change in, in us, we thought, hey, look, if it can happen for us, it can happen to anybody. And so we trained and went into the Christian ministry and specialized in marriage and family reconciliations and that’s what we did for 20 years and we had worked with hundreds of couples, thousands of couples. We were guest speakers all over the world. but we really were able to focus our energies and our, our work in helping people that were coming to us with different challenges and different degrees of feeling that they were absolutely not able to be rescued.
Joal Landi: 45:36 It was too far gone. And that’s what we did. And so the reason why I shared that story is because we had this profound personal change. And then I left the, you know, I finished my career as a military officer. Julia was in marketing. We went into the ministry. People were more shocked than happy I think because they were like, this was, it was so radical. And that’s sometimes when there’s so much changing people’s lives, the people around us, they don’t know how to handle it. Even though it was positive. They did know how to handle it.
Julie Landi: 46:06 And even from the before we actually made that career shift to Leanne, I just wanted to say this, that you know, because our dynamic was so different. Some people heard about it that were far away. Some people experienced it that were closer to us geographically and physically, but it was really like, could you please show us how, how did this happen? How did this happen? Well, that’s what perpetuated our career career changes because it became obvious that, you know, we have some sort. Something was a gift here. Something happened and more and more people kept asking us, how did you do it? How did you do it? How did you do it? And so we felt compelled honestly, because we were so untrained at that point, we knew what had happened to us and that was a big part of it. And that’s a big part of our success even today is we feel what people feel when they’re in those situations. Not Speaking from a textbook, although we had that classical training now, but we are speaking really from the heart. We know what it feels like to be treated.
Leanne: 47:05 Incredible, incredible. You guys are doing tremendous work really hard. And, and I’m just wondering for our listeners, they’re in different. They’re in different places. So you know, some maybe thinking about divorce, some maybe being in the middle of it and others maybe you know way past it or but what would be, what would be your one takeaway to share with them? Like if nothing else,
Joel Landi: 47:33 this is a serving response, but I really believe it to be true is when two people are really convinced of something and in this case, you know, they’re heard or they just believe that, you know, things need to be very different. You really need to find a third party that you trust that is not just a good listener, but a third party that has wisdom in a third party that can actually respond to what they’re hearing in a way that’s unbiased and really constructive. I mean, it’s easy to be a listener and that’s a great thing, but it’s very difficult to find people to actually help you out of what seems to be a situation. Like for Julie and I. I mean, we really thought it was lost. We really thought we just have. There’s nothing left here. It’s too far gone or angry or bitter or resentful.
Joel Landi: 48:25 We don’t trust each other. Once trust is damaged, it’s incredibly difficult to be restored, but it can happen. It really can happen. And we’ve walked hundreds of people through that and in fact, you know, I don’t know how much time, I’m guessing we’re probably coming close to the end of the, of the, of our talk here, but, but Julie and I did want to, you know, we were thinking about, well, how can we make a difference, how can we make a contribution? And as I mentioned earlier, Leanne and the podcast, one of the things that we do do is a couple of immersion and that’s anywhere from a day to two and a half days depending upon geographically where we’re at, where people are at, what they want to get involved in. But we do these highly immersive, highly concentrated experiences with couples and they range from, I hate you, I don’t want to be in the room with you, but my conscience tells me I should try one more time till the other side of the spectr which is, you know, we’re kind of bored.
Joel Landi: 49:21 And, if things don’t change, I don’t know if this can really, I don’t know, I just don’t really have a lot of faith in the future of our marriage, but we are willing to open ourselves up to a couple who would like to do an immersive experience here with us in southern California in the Los Angeles area. And so what we’d like to do is offer your listeners at the end, will give us, give them your, our emails and for them just to tell us their story as much as their story they’re comfortable with about their relationship and what they would like to see happen in their relationship. And we’d like to handpick a couple and help them, help them in, in an immersive, immersive experience at a rate that would be very, I mean, compared to what we would normally offer, it would be very, very manageable for most any couple.
Leanne: 50:08 Wow. Wow. What a fantastic offer for somebody. Yeah. Huge. You guys. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much. And our, to our listeners a, I would be jumping on this. This is really, really amazing. And what we’ll do is if you want to share that email address now and then I’ll also put it in the show notes so that people can find it there and the, the summary of the podcast and also on our website.
Leanne: 50:52 Wow. Okay, great. And I wrote that down so I’ll have that as well. And we’ll be. We’ll be sharing this this week as we talk about this episode of the podcast. You guys are terrific.
Julie Landi: 51:05 The immersion is what turned our lives around, which is why we’re so passionate about that. That was our wow. It was spun our heads and opened possibilities and gave us a life back to be able to see forward. And so that’s why we really want to offer this at a radically reduced rate for any couple that feels like their story. They want to share their story. They liked that opportunity, but you know what? We want to gift a big chunk of it to them so that they can have that chance as well. So
Joel Landi: 51:35 it’s like the difference, you know, some people like to binge watch their favorite show.
Joel Landi: 51:41 People want help, they want to come back, you know, once a week they want to go slow, they want to take good notes that, you know, they want it to feel right. Other people just want to jump in and either cigarette, Hey, what do I have here?
Leanne: 51:52 Yeah.
Joel Landi: 51:53 Is this a problem that I’m not going to get out from underneath? I mean, can I turn the corner here? I got to get out of this pain. This is for people that they’re, they’re, they’re really tired of being in pain. They’re tired of being stuck and they don’t want to wait a couple of months or a couple of weeks. They really want to figure some stuff out quick and that’s what the immersions are designed to do.
Julie Landi: 52:11 And they know the cost. If they don’t fix this is going to be extraordinary both emotionally, either family psychologically and financially expensive. I’m sure we all know that and we’ve even putting up a partnership is very expensive.
Leanne: 52:28 Yes. And sometimes we pay for that for years. So this is an extremely generous offer you guys and I really appreciate it. I appreciate you taking all the time to share what it is that you do. all of the success stories and the couples that you’ve helped along the way. And you know, congratulations on your own fantastic relationship. You guys are doing some really good things.
Julie Landi: 52:52 Thank you, Leanne.
Leanne: 52:54 Thank you so much.