Episode 072: Sexy Boss Part 2 of 2
Episode 072: Sexy Boss Part 2 of 2 with special guest Heather Ann Havenwood
Heather Ann Havenwood returns! We continue our conversation, picking up at her awesome calf-roping analogy. Heather was named by Huffington Post™ as one of the ‘Top 50-Must Follow Women Entrepreneurs’, is an Entrepreneur.com contributor and regarded as a top authority on digital marketing strategies and online business sales systems. Heather is a fierce and independent woman who happens to be a child of divorce and survivor of three engagements.
Leanne: 00:07 Welcome to episode 72. I’m your host, Liam Linsky. I’m the boyfriend. Welcome back to another wonderful week of yes. Yeah, yeah. Hey, while you’re out there tuning in, and before I forget, make sure you rate, review and subscribe. Unless of course you’re driving. We want you to be safe and if you’re safe, why not? Check out the website at life. Laughter, divorce.com. All kinds of goodness there, especially in the retail therapy section. That’s right. We haven’t talked about the soaps and candles in quite some time. Boyfriend, get your act cleaned up. People.
The Boyfriend: 00:46 Yeah. Don’t use a candle. So much is getting summer-y now and I know they can be used all year round, but the soaps though
Leanne: 00:53 candace can be used all the time or romance is in the air. Special night to relax in front of the tub, maybe in front of the tv,
The Boyfriend: 01:00 which is in June than any other month.
Leanne: 01:02 Yeah, there’s a whole ge. I was at June bride once. Yeah, and my parents were June. Yeah. You guys aren’t going to anybody take a bad light a candle. That’s what I’m talking about. All of that. Goodness, that life, my divorce,
The Boyfriend: 01:17 some barry white or something. What are you doing?
Leanne: 01:20 I don’t know. Watching Rom coms. Oh yeah. Going watched jaws, you know, classics, things like that. You can be doing that. Netflix. Bingeing. Like the handmade tails. Now. That’s a picker upper right there.
The Boyfriend: 01:34 Well, I’m just thinking about jaws because we actually did jaws at a movie in
Leanne: 01:39 and the beach and it was so cold. We left 15 minutes and then we’re like, hey, let’s watch it at home and then I fell asleep and my kind of night, hey you guys, you know what, we’re excited to be back. Uh, this is actually part two with heather and haven would that we’re excited about. And if you haven’t checked out episode 71 the episode right before this one, we highly recommend it. And in case you let us refresh your memory or introduce you to our guests,
The Boyfriend: 02:12 you. This one’s a. Since I edited it to put it together, we jumped right in. So the, so there’s very little overlap from last week. We jumped right in and she, she has a very interesting a metaphor or analogy of dating, dating and it has to do with Rodeo, so
Leanne: 02:32 up, so here you go. Heather and haven would was named by Huffington post as one of the top 50, must follow a woman, entrepreneurs. She is an entrepreneur.com contributor and is regarded as a top authority on digital marketing strategies and online business sales systems. Had they’re built and marketed her first online business in 1999 and she has played an active role in the digital marketing world since before most even had a home computer
Leanne: 03:00 and 2006. She started and developed and grew and online publishing company from zero to a million dollars in sales in less than 12 months in 2015. She did it again, built a local weight loss and online supplement business from zero to one point $5 million in sales in less than 18 months. Heather is now an entrepreneur, mentor marketing coach and sales systems strategist. She is currently focused or work on working with solo entrepreneurs, small businesses and sales professionals on how to leverage the hottest online techniques such as chat bots, online social behaviors, analysis, podcast, profiting and measurement, marketing, reading the data to make the best marketing decisions for all cmos and ceos. You can learn more about heather. Heather haven would.com. And without further ado,
Heather: 04:10 so you ever watch. I don’t know if you ever go to the Rodeo. You ever gone to the Rodeo before mason on CPA? I have. Okay. So you received the cowboys when they get the cast and they throw the caps down and they tie him up with the fork. The, it’s called calf roping. Yeah. Ever seen that? Okay. Super, super curl, supernaut, whatever you want to call it. That’s how I feel because they’re like, oh wow. There something too, like you know, dominate, wrap it up. That’s how I feel. People been our tomato, they find it. Try to, they find it sexy like yeah. And then they like throw me down, like, you know what I mean? And they’re like, okay, now you need to stay down. But I usually pop back up and I’m like, uh, yeah, I’m not playing that game, you know? Yeah. Like, Whoa, you need to like, get back down there. And I’m like, no. Oh, well now you’re crazy. Wait, no, I’m not going to lay it out for you.
Heather: 05:09 So there’s that piece of them as a man that goes after a little calf. I mean, it’s crazy. And, or the, the bowl to tame the bowl or to tame the horse. It’s that part of them that just feels like they need to tame me. You know? And it’s really interesting to watch because if you actually look at an animal kingdom of the lion, like the true lion, the masculine lion, the lion is stronger than the male lion. Psychologically, not physically. It’s the female lion that runs everything. Just like at the human world. Like I’m clear, women run the world and they run households, right? If it wasn’t for the female, sometimes the mail be like, I don’t know what I’m doing tomorrow. Right? So I’m clear that. But that’s the same thing. Animal Kingdom. But they see the lion that the male lion as the strong one, in actuality, if you watch the pack, it’s the female one that goes and gets the dinner is the female one that takes care of the cop is the female one that actually starts protecting the cups, right? It’s actually the female line that’s way more stronger. And the male lion summits to the female line all the time. Right. That’s actually the animal kingdom at a high level. And I feel like though instead they want to just dominate a strong woman so they feel better. They don’t actually really want a strong woman, you know, power hour
Leanne & Heathe: 06:40 and we’re just now we’re just generally man bashing. No, no we’re not. But, but there are, there are introduced to it, there is there. Well, and I think, well the narrows narcissists especially, there’s a thing of winning. It’s all about winning, right? But I think sometimes when it comes to gender differences, I think it is more about how we’re wired and there’s a, there’s an instinct to, to fix and to manage. Like so if, if a woman, if we come to each other and you and I have a conversation about, I have this problem, you and I have no problem sitting there hashing it out and going over the details in depth over a glass of wine for like hours. Right? Right, right, right. Eat away at the end of the night going, nothing solved, but damn, I feel better. That was great. We just world ended world peace, but we solved all the world’s problems and we’re good.
Leanne: 07:37 But a man, like if I go to a man with the same issue, he’s going to be like, what can I do? How do I fix it? I just want you to stop crying. I want you to. I don’t want to hear more words about it. I just want to fix it and let’s move. And so there’s this difference about how we handle things in what? Like if I go to somebody and I have an issue that’s on my mind, I probably don’t want you to solve it. I just want you to listen. Right? And it’s those love languages and stuff we hear about. And I think that’s the difference where a man’s instinct is like, let me handle it. I’ve got this, I’m going to fix it, boom. Uh, no. That’s not what not really what we really want, right? Yeah. I don’t want you to fix my problems. I just want you to listen to me even use your selective hearing. Pretend that this is happening right now and you’re in, you’re hearing me out. But I think there is that difference. Right? And until you get that, I just want to clarify for the listeners because when a narcissist relationship, it’s definitely very different, very different. And it’s, it’s definitely going to be where they have to be in charge and in the notes, this
Heather: 08:49 world and our world, it really is the only way to say it. It’s way or the highway. And it really is like that. And they’re never wrong ever. You know, it’s like they could tie their shoe wrong and they say it’s the shoes tied wrong. Like, no, it’s not. It’s obvious on backwards. You know what I mean? Like they are never wrong ever. And they can’t be. They have to. And they surround the, another key piece they surround themselves with people that never questioned them, that never crossed them. So either they just submit all the time or they just live in fear. That was my father, right? So everyone in the family just does what they’re told. They don’t even question him, they just don’t even try. Like I questioned him and guess what? I got kicked out of the family. Right? So I. people just don’t question him. I remember, um, just to give you an example, at one point when I was still in good graces and all that time I looked at my half brother and I said, I’m thinking about going to law school. He goes, Oh God, don’t tell dad.
Heather: 09:57 I go, why? He’s, you know how he hates lawyers. Don’t do that. If you do, just don’t just do it. And don’t tell them, you know, it’s like this fear, Mike. That’s crazy. I can’t just tell my father what I want to do with my life. I’m 30 years old or whatever. He’s like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You don’t do that.
Heather: 10:10 He had been trained by the EPA. They’ve been living with him for his whole life. I had not. He had been trained, do not question him, do not cross him and don’t go against his rules. And if you do, you will get a consequence of that. Even if that means when you’re 30 years old and you want to go to law school, it’s crazy. So the same thing with the new ax, right? He is the same way. He was happy with me as long as I was building our quote unquote slash his business. The moment I was like, you know, I think I’m going to start something else over here for me. What, why? You know, where you’re going, the movement we do.
Leanne: 10:51 Then now he’s losing control. He ended up regaining it then by taking tickets.
Heather: 10:59 Right? Yeah. So, and what you need to know is the day that we saw when it was a breakup, it was a, as they call us, there’s a term in our store. It was a no contact. Yeah, it was all right. It was a hardcore line.
Leanne: 11:14 He didn’t know. He drew that line. He disappeared.
Heather: 11:17 Uh,
Heather: 11:19 the therapists did. Therapist told you don’t ever have contact with him again. You know what? Honestly, if it wasn’t for the therapist, because I’m the kind of on a person
Heather: 11:28 that like, okay, well having a little fight in about a week, I’ll call you. Like I’m that like all I’m in the bridge person member because I was taught this like Keith, peace. Keep the peace, right? So I kind of go there sometimes. So she’s like, oh no, like, right. So, um, it was like that and I still had the ring and I didn’t want the ring, but he emptied the bank accounts and a rent was due. Now you got to get. I’ve been doing very well in my life, right? And I have a good successful consulting business and this and this and this. And we were doing, we were doing very, very well financially. But I’m over here thinking about the relationship, my heart and my feelings, all that stupid shit. And he’s over there, you know, taking everything and leaving me high and dry. And so I, I mean like, like no kidding, rent was due and um, I wasn’t living with him.
Heather: 12:25 I had Mr. House houseman back and forth and I had to hock the rate. I didn’t want to. I kept texting him through the therapist, like, I do not want to sell this rain. It’s not my ring. Just have the ring. I just need some cash to move on. And he had said, this is a narcissistic. Okay. He said in front of the therapist months prior, the therapist ask them, look, if you all break up, I don’t know what’s going to happen, but if y’all break up, you’re not gonna. You’re not gonna. Just leave her high and dry. Right? You’re going to make sure she’s taken care of financially. Right. Because right now you controlling all the finances of the company. Right? He’s like, no, I would never do that. I would make sure she’s taken care of if something happens right in front of the therapist, third party, and so she looks at me. He goes, okay. He said that he took care of it. You get to trust that heather. Oh, okay.
Heather: 13:14 And then meanwhile it gets all going down in front of the therapist and it was a huge gift that it happened in front of the therapist because the thing that the narcissist cannot stand is to look bad in Austin. And so the fact that it was all going down in front of a third party makes it worse for him because there’s a third party watching. If it was just him and I, it was, it would be. He said, she said, and I’m cray cray now. Everyone in his life who I thought were people in my life, you know, the people that I thought were my friends quickly, within a week I’m, I’m going silent because I’m over here in grief and he is bad mouth. They meet every where I had people unfriend me at people never. I don’t want to have to talk to you again.
Heather: 13:59 I don’t even know what he’s telling them. Right? All I what he’s probably saying, I’m crazy. Great Gray Bowl, blah telling all these lies. And all of these people that I thought were friends are gone in a week. They all took his side because you know, he’s this big, strong, good looking, powerful guy and they’re not going to question him. Right. That’s our stas. You’re questioned me. You’re out of my life. Right? I’m right. Do not question me. She’s crazy. You know, you’re going to pick me not, you’re out of my life. And they all picked him. They all pick tim. That’s, that’s part of the control mechanism. It’s a very common occurrence. He’s very charismatic. He’s very good looking. He’s very, he’s a doctor. I can go on and on and so, um, yeah. So people, they, it’s easy to pick him over me, right?
Leanne: 14:53 Yeah. And so he controlled that narrative right from the get go immediately.
Heather: 15:00 People that are in my life for 10 years just gone. So it tends to like even looking at, you just hear my side out, you know, and I’m just not like that probably because of years ago. The divorce, I’m not like that. I’m not a person like, oh, I’m going to just bad mouth them because it’s just like, I don’t, I’m just not going to bad mouth them. I’ll tell you what happened, I’ll tell you what happened from my view, but I’m definitely not going to be like he’s an, I’m just not, I’m just not like that. He is. He is, and I’m just not going to do the whole like, you know, bad mouth and just a bad mouth.
Leanne: 15:39 Well, where are you? Where are you now in this process? I think things are still happening.
Heather: 15:45 Oh, I mean, well, I mean my business is backup. I focus on myself when you focus on yourself and stop betraying yourself and this is just mean general weight. When I stopped train myself and focus on myself and taking care of myself and loving myself, things shipped right? Things, open up, things shipped, businesses back on. And I’m growing. My business, I’ve been, you in my podcast is 665,000 downloads every single podcast, three point 5 million reach. Um, I’m, I’m about to launch a new book. I mean, things are going well because I started focusing on myself, right? Sort of focusing on what needs to take care of heather versus taking care of, excuse my language. We’re taking care of a man and I understand that we’re taught that. I understand women are taught to take care of our man and I get that. Um, but sometimes it’s like you gotta, make sure you’re taking care of yourself first. You know, you gotTa, make sure you’re take your, you have your eyes are wide open girl. I’m not saying he’s going to do anything and you got to have your eyes wide open. That’s all I’m saying.
Leanne: 16:44 Right? And so, okay. What I’m hearing is that when, for you, it sounds like when things with these relationships with the men in your life, you end up being very successful in business like you, you are, you are like diabetes, but that’s kind of your place. That’s your outlet. It’s like success is the best revenge, right?
Heather: 17:09 Yeah. Yeah, it is. It completely is. The thing I’m bumping up against now in my life is that I’m very strong right now and I’m, I’m going fast in business and in my experience and as of right now I’m, the more I get momentum in business and the more I’m focused on business again, like I said, I don’t care what they say and movies. Men Don’t want it. They say they want it. They say they want that strong woman, but there’s a reason why Jennifer Aniston single girl, she’s smoking hot. I’d Banger. You know what I mean? Like she’s smoking hot. I’d marry her. She’s hot, smart, she’s intelligent, she’s freaking wealthy, rich, and for some reason she can’t give him a guy. Come on, how much better can you get than Jennifer Aniston? She got gray hair. I mean, come on and she’s strong. She’s independent. I think that again, like I said, and I’m not trying to dis is not a man bash. I just wish that people would be more honest of like, yeah, we, we think it’s hot, but not really.
Leanne: 18:16 Right, right. So, so what do you know when you think in terms of relationships now and what your experience has been? It hasn’t been all that positive and you’ve, you know, dealing with narcissists is devastating on so many levels because that can really, because everything that we thought to be true was a lie. Everything with a narcissist so that, that’s just like cuts to the core and for me in my experience with it, and I’m wondering if this is the same for you or not. So I’m curious to hear your answer better, but like I have trouble with that that relates to all peoples. Like I know that I’ve, I never wanted to be a bitter woman with 11 cats. No offense to everybody, cat lovers, but that’s just not who I want to be. You know that in my mind I’m like, I don’t want to become that woman where I’m like, no, I’m never getting married and I’m never going to trust anybody and I’m never going to do that. Like I think I’m there.
Heather: 19:19 Yeah. Cross that way.
Leanne: 19:21 No, and I’m, and I’m curious though because like, okay, so when we approach another relationship or new relationship, I mean obviously we’re going to have some guards up, we’re gonna have some past experience. How do you, what is your method of approaching relationships now and how to.
Heather: 19:41 Here’s so here’s right now. So here’s where I’m at right now and I’m not saying everyone should be here. However, you know, one of the sayings that I was told a long time ago, which is the same that got me out of my life and I had to really look at my patterns like I have. We all have patterns, but I had to really look at my patterns the last 10 years through the last couple months like I had to my therapist and my coach was like, okay, here we go. Like you’re looking at your patterns, like patterns, look at that. So I had to really look at those patterns and the every single time I betrayed myself in a situation it could have been small to really small or big, you know, like uh, disrupt the business for him or something. That’s a big one. What’s an example of a small one?
Heather: 20:30 Sorry. It could just be, well, I want this and it’s like I really wanted something else, but okay. I wasn’t a compromise, so between compromise and just betrayal one self, that’s a big difference and not being able to speak up and say, oh, I really want this and I want to compromise. It’s those tiny little not, you know what I call it a killed by a thousand cuts and you see women. Do you see women talk about this all the time. They’re like, well, after 10 years, in 20 years I just didn’t realize I’d lost myself. Right. You hear that because there’s these tiny little. We put it in our head is compromise while we’re not doing that because the relationship for the kids, you know, what we do in our head was sacrifice and yet if you look at, and this is not against is Donna gets made.
Heather: 21:23 If you look at the patterns of a man, okay? Generally speaking, they will say to you, we’re going to. I’m going to the baseball with my buddies. They don’t even think twice. I got to sacrifice for the relationship. They just don’t. You have to tell them, you guys sacrificed relationship. You’ve got to compromise. They don’t even. They automatically say, I want to go do this. I’m going to go do this. You know what our trained, I call it a train. A train. Men had been married for 25 years, is gonna say, Hey, I really want to go to baseball game honeys that goal weight, but that’s a trained dude said trade. It’s like, Oh, you’ve been married for 20 years ago. A man who has, has learned that they don’t automatically do that. The woman automatically sacrifices and betrays herself. She audit. We automatically ask for the permission.
Heather: 22:13 We automatically or no, we just, we just sacrificed his friend and says, Hey, let’s go to the have wine. We don’t even ask permission. We just say no. Right? I got to be here for the kids or Gary or Bob or whatever. No. Next thing you know, it’s like years later and where’s you? Where’s your passion? Where’s your desires with that? So it’s what I call the thousand cuts and if I looked in my patterns, and this is not just in relationships with men, this is a relationship with myself. Every time that I portrayed myself, every time that I didn’t listen to myself and listen to either a man or somebody else, like a coach or consultant or something right where they didn’t have my best interest and didn’t really listen to my higher self every time that’s where I hit a wall, you know? And that’s my biggest thing now.
Heather: 23:04 So I’m really upfront where I’m at now. If I date or I need some updating, I am super upfront like this is me. You know what I mean? If if doesn’t work for you, I am not going to alter much for you. Right. You know, there’s compromise but then there’s altered. All trained and women do this, we do this. I know we do this, we see a guy they like and we will twist our assets into a pretzel to get them to like us. We twist ourselves into something that we go, who am I years later, right? Versus standing and who we are and this is me and we’re going to the right person will will be attracted to me. You know, I don’t have to fit into a pretzel to get a guy to like us. Why do I know we do this? Look at the health and wellness industry and the beauty industry.
Heather: 24:05 All the stuff we do to look beautiful. That’s all of us. A looking good for the women and be putting ourselves into a pretzel to be loved and liked by the other. The other side write. All of it has to do with that. So for me, where I’m at right now is, goes back to this. I always asked myself the question, does this feed my confusion or strengthen my clarity? It’s the question that got me out of a lot in my life. So I asked myself the question is if fema confusion strengthen my clarity, the moment that. And this is how hot it’s been. Really freeing. Actually the moment that a man, it’s been a lot lately, the man starts to cause a lot of drama in my life. Like he starts to just. Cause a lot of drama throughout
Leanne: 24:51 man. Start drama because
Heather: 24:52 God a lot. They are. Yeah, well they’re all gone now, but I had a lot of guys just cause drama and I’m in my life and I usually I think a female in will say, oh I’m sorry you’re trying to fix it or submit to that. And I’m just like, you know what? I’m out and done and I just don’t deal with the drama. It’s just dealt with it.
Leanne: 25:17 Do you find that men find you? Are you finding men? Is there anybody like you pursued are usually the one in pursuit, you know, being pursued.
Heather: 25:29 They pursue me. I’m not a pursuit. They pursue me. Not a big pursuer.
Leanne: 25:34 Well just that I’m super curious, you know, because it sounds like you’re a challenge for a guy and you’re going to get that guy who wants to like wrangle that tie you up. Right. What would it look like if you were to pursue a man? What would, what would that be like?
Heather: 25:54 It would definitely be uncomfortable. Um, it’d be new for me and to be. Oh, that’d be fine with it. Like, I think I would be, that’d be kind of fun.
Leanne: 26:09 Would that, would that be a game changer for like, does that seem weird or out of this? Like even what kind of guy would you think? Like I’m gonna, you know, go after that.
Heather: 26:24 Um, so there’s a word for this and I don’t know what it is, but it’s the word where a person is turned on by an intellect. [inaudible] there’s a, there’s a word for it. I don’t know what it is. Unusual. I’m attracted to intellectual conversation and intellectual, deep conversation and smart men. So it’s interesting. I was in a mastermind a couple of, so I’ve been in, in the, in the speaking business for a long time. [inaudible] my first mastermind with all mid was like, oh, two, oh 3:00 AM is me, and a bunch of millionaires in a room. And yes, they asked me to go get coffee. Um, over the years I have learned to tell them to go get me coffee. So I’m, I was an arrest or my room with like 100 guys, all business owners, all successful. And that’s normal for me. I feel very, very, uh, confident in that space.
Heather: 27:22 It almost feels like a warm bath. It’s normal. So the guy reaches over to me, guy that I met, he’s married and he says, I noticed you’re really comfortable here, and I might be. Is there a reason why shouldn’t be. He’s like, well, I’m just saying that most women wouldn’t be very comfortable sitting around 100 millionaires. I’m like, okay, well, because to me this is where I belong and I’m a. he’s like, see, most women wouldn’t really get that. I’m like, okay, okay. And I’m not most women. What’s your, what’s your point? Right? I don’t get your point. So he was pointing out that one, um, I am not lying. West woman might shocker, right? So, but at the same time, I’m more comfortable in the masculine energy. He’s like, you have a lot more masculine energy than you do from an energy. And I’m well aware of that and well aware of that.
Heather: 28:13 What I think is really interesting. Then this might sound odd, but over the years of all those men that I’ve been around in business, I look at their wives, you know, sometimes I’m like, who would they date? Right? Who would they, Barry and I would say in my experience, last 15 years, if I had to put a number on it, no, same 90 percent or maybe 85 percent, but pretty high. Okay. Majority of the men that I’ve met that are strong and, and, and, you know, they’ve got a big business like that. Their wives have nothing to do with the business. They are extremely submissive and they want nothing to do with the business. They focus on the kids or whatever and they’re there just to provide support. They’re not there to provide partnership. That makes sense. Yeah. So, you know, there was a guy that I know has been married three times, extremely successful, really successful guy.
Heather: 29:15 His last wife, he went to the Philippines and got a girl fulfilled Pete, you know what I’m saying? Like you didn’t get the world of that re not American. Uh, she never questioned if he was like, I’m moving to Vegas now, moving to La. Okay honey, you know what I mean? Like let me go pack the bags. So I think that one of the challenges that as women in the me too movement or happening to women are stronger and they are getting a, they are bringing home the banking in a weird way. I feel sorry for the guys because they, they’ve got to either find women outside of the country or the country or they’ve got to learn to be stronger and who they are and be more competent who they are. Because I cannot tell you how many times I’ve heard this. I’m so sick of hearing this.
Heather: 30:05 I heard this yesterday. Well, most women, most women, most men can’t handle you heather. And I’m like, well then get us out of balls. Dude. I don’t just tell you like, what do you mean to, do you want me to like not be me? She made it, you know, I, I, I have spent almost 15, 20 years of my life because part of that’s what my father trying to be something I’m not and I’m at a point now in 43 years old. This is me. Do I want a partner? Yes. Do I want someone that could look at me in the eye and we could have a great conversation and we could go create together? Yes. There are 6 billion people on the planet. You can’t tell me. There’s not one main that’s not like that. Right. So I think there is, but I think in today’s world with where we’re headed with women becoming more and more career minded, I think men have to catch up. This is more about men having to learn to catch up.
Leanne: 31:02 Where do you think you would find this guy?
Leanne: 31:04 That idea will be on your podcast.
Leanne: 31:08 Maybe it could happen, it could happen. Well, and I think this goes into something else that we want to talk about was, so the stigma of being divorced at a certain age in life and later in life or after the age of 40 even is different than being a woman of the same age and never having been married.
Heather: 31:30 Yeah. So one of the stigmas I’m getting or the feedback or pushback I get when I’m on these apps and we know how, you know, how these apps are like tinder or bumble, the good thing about them is that people say whatever the hell they want. The bad thing is people say what the hell they want, right? Because there’s no, you’re not sitting across a table from them saying it. You’re on an APP,
Leanne: 31:50 say a lot. There’s a lot of power behind anonymity. There isn’t a lot, right? So they feel free to say whatever the hell they want. Um, and I’ve got a lot of like,
Heather: 32:01 what’s wrong with you? Why aren’t you married? It’s so. I’m like, okay. So what you’re saying is something’s wrong with me because I made some good decisions when I was younger and I knew that I wasn’t ready to get married and I didn’t have babies when I was 22. Is that what you’re saying? You know, is it that I’m, I, it’s not that I didn’t find good people are good guys. I just just hasn’t been the right one for me. What, why is it there has to be this particular pathway, you know, that’s as good a lot of stigma that something must be wrong with you. I might actually. Maybe something’s right with me. Maybe baby. I didn’t get married just to get married, to get married, to have the check mark. I actually really wanted to have a partner
Leanne: 32:48 [inaudible].
Heather: 32:50 I don’t know, maybe I’m wrong.
Leanne: 32:52 Yeah. You know, it’s kind of, as I’m sitting here listening, I’m like, you know, it’s so funny because on the podcast we’ve talked about there’s this stigma of being divorced and especially I felt it after being divorced twice at a young age. Right? Like, what’s wrong with me? You know, it’s kind of like, once it’s acceptable after two people are like, okay, what’s wrong with this broad? You know, like, clearly nobody wants you, you’re crazy. Um, so I feel like whether you know, hearing from you is, is the same kind of thing, like what’s wrong with you? You have never been married or it’s what’s wrong with you? You’re, you didn’t make it. Basically the big question is what’s wrong with you? You’re not married.
Heather: 33:32 Yeah. It’s like, well, yeah, that’s, yeah, it’s almost in a weird way, kind of a what’s wrong with you so that someone doesn’t love you? How can I, I don’t know what’s weird about that. And it’s also my age. I’m 43, so in the millennials and the twenties right now, or even the late thirties, they don’t have that. I think they don’t have that at all. Like all of that’s gone. They’re more like, why would I get married? Right.
Leanne: 33:57 Yeah. When I talk to people like millennials and they’re like, you’re married twice already by this age that I am then I’m man, I’ve been married and divorced twice before you were that age. And they just like, I can’t even imagine and I’m like, I can’t even imagine I have not done it is. It’s weird. There’s, it’s definitely changing.
Heather: 34:20 It’s changing. And I live in Austin so I live in a very millennial. Yeah. And I find it refreshing. Um, but I find it refreshing when I talked to people just because they don’t, they don’t have that stigma about wives married what? Right. Tell me the reason. Okay, I’ll live with you because that’s gonna help my rent. But tell me again, why should I get married? Like I don’t know if I want to get married. They’re on the way other side of it. We’re taught to me. I was born in [inaudible] 75. So you get the genre of that. But I was broke. I mean bread, like I was told you’re not going to really amount to much. Your job is to have babies. Like I was told that shit. So in most every and, and I mean this when I went to my 20 year reunion, pretty much every girl there.
Heather: 35:05 That was what they did. Again, not against it, but it’s a training mechanism. So the fact that I rebelled against that, if you would say, and didn’t you know, was this huge, wow, what, how dare you. But meanwhile there’s people like, I’m so jealous of you. Right? So what, what does, what does marriage, what does marriage really have to do with life? Now there’s a lot of stats around people who are married are more financially successful. Yes, totally get that. I can see completely. I think that people who are her mayor of long time, they can be happier. It’s a partner and get all that. But in today’s world with where we’re at with the Internet and travel and building businesses anywhere, what is the point of marriage now?
Leanne: 35:59 [inaudible]
Heather: 36:00 what really is. I know people that have been together for 10 years and they’re together, right? Or monogamous, you know, they’re together. Do they really need to have the,
Leanne: 36:09 the paper in the rain. And that’s interesting too because you know, the higher the people with a lower divorce rates are people who are agnostic and atheist
Heather: 36:21 really aghast that I can see that.
Leanne: 36:25 Isn’t that fascinating? Because I think, you know, I think the highest was like Baptist was the highest divorce rate. I could be wrong, but I will.
Heather: 36:35 Baptist. That’s so funny. Yeah, I can see that. You know, I remember like fuel know about this, about me. I went to Baylor University, which is a baptist school. Very, very, very southern baptist. My first semester in college I actually failed out because heather, uh, was depressed. So I just drank. That’s what I did when I was younger at that time. Uh, I don’t drink now, so that’s how that goes. But, um, when I was younger I was young and I didn’t know what to do, so I drank, but I remember when I was at this table with my Bible study and, and these girls are going around the table, like what’s your degree or something? And two of them said, well, I’m just here for Mrs. Degree. Oh. And I literally said, I don’t know what that is. What is that?
Speaker 4: 37:26 [inaudible]?
Heather: 37:27 And they’re like, I’m just here to get married. And I was like, you’re spending how much per credit hour for what? Twenty $5 per credit hour to get married. That’s crazy.
Speaker 4: 37:45 But
Leanne: 37:46 very common people do it and it is very common today I’m sure as well. I wouldn’t know. I’m guessing at some university says probably a common thing. Yeah, it was a baptist. That’s what Brianna, right? Yeah. Well I can. And in the south, right?
Heather: 38:06 Oh yeah. Texas southern. Very, very southern baptist. Baylor is extremely southern. Southern. Southern. Southern. Southern Baptist. Right, right. So a statement to that I think. I think it was. I can see why agnostic comes from why it’s more successful because they, if I’m going to insert this, not based on data, but I would insert that it’s, they’re coming from choice, you know, like I choose you as my partner for no other reason just because I choose you. You know, I get that. That’s kind of where I’m at in my life now. I’m not interested in having a husband has to have a husband. I’m more like if there’s someone in my life that I come across and like, I’m like, why I choose you. I choose you to be in my life. I just need my space. I’m like, let’s go. Let’s do that. I want it is not necessarily like I need you to build a life.
Heather: 38:57 I want to share my life with you. The very choice is different premise. It’s a very different premise and I think that happens with age. It’s like, oh, I don’t have to have every single person I come across in my life. I get to choose who I communicate with you and you get to choose who I spend time with. I get to choose who I create with. I get to choose who I sleep with. I get to choose that now. And that comes from a very, very strong standpoint. I believe it’s the, the higher evolution and yet, and yet majority people just aren’t there, you know, and that’s okay. That is okay. Do I want know love of course, of course. And do I want to share my life with somebody? Of course. And I want to make sure that they’re choosing me for me and I’m choosing them for who they really are too.
Heather: 39:47 And it’s just good. You know? It doesn’t have to be hard. It shouldn’t have to be hard. So having a conversation the other day with the guy that’s really after me and I said to him, look, this is too hard. You’re making this hard in, this shouldn’t be hard, you know, like I’m all about moving through stuff and figuring it out and things can be challenging relationships. But there’s a difference between, you know, challenges and hard, you know, and I’m like, this is, this is like to, you know, we’re just not meshing, right? It’s like why are you trying so hard? But the more I tell him that, the more like, you know, oh, I want you more. No, I’m being serious. This is actually like this again, that’s why I’m
Leanne: 40:42 what it would look like for heather to go after somebody else and find somebody who is like kind of a challenge for you instead, you know, more stimulating for you.
Heather: 40:57 Can you just let me know who that is? If people buy life right now and there really isn’t one. Yeah. And not a negative way. I just say that in a like I haven’t found someone. I guess I really can’t. I can say I haven’t really found someone that’s my match.
Leanne: 41:13 Do you usually find people who are very similar to you or like in the business world and kind of going the same path? Is that usually what you’ve dated in the past? Because it sounds like you’ve dated a lot of successful men.
Heather: 41:26 I have, um, I’ve tried both. I’ve tried, you know, someone similar and I’ve also tried someone who doesn’t even know how to spell entrepreneur. Um, and I’ve, I’ve, or guys who are just, uh, don’t want anything to do with entrepreneurship. Right? So I’ve kind of run the gamut on that. I wouldn’t say one’s better than the other. If I had to say what I think that I would want is I would want somebody, and I think that would be a better fit, long term. It the controlling ego side of me says, oh, I want to, I don’t want a man who’s in this business. The higher self part of me who says whoever you really happy with, I’d want a person that’s creating big things in his life too. And we’re like living that together, you know, Kinda like a different incident in a Brad Pitt right together. Right? Like they’re both in their own world of both creating. They’re both strong. They’re both doing their own thing. They’re both going through their own passion and they’re together
Leanne: 42:32 that. Yeah. And at the each day they come together.
Heather: 42:35 Yeah. They’re like, they both know each other’s business to actors when two actors date and they’re in a relationship together and it works, it makes sense, right? Because they both understand the industry together. They understand what it takes, they understand going into the parties, they understand what sucks is when you have someone who’s in the industry like say acting because it’s easy and someone who’s not and is not interested in that world, doesn’t want to go to the red carpet. He doesn’t want to go to the parties. That is a hard. Yes. You know. So I’d rather be like we’re both least some way in some kind of space of the industry, maybe in your side and on my side. But we both. Yeah.
Leanne: 43:15 Sand the importance of going to certain things and doing it as a team versus no, I’m not doing that.
Heather: 43:22 You go do it. It’s like, but if I need you to come right, I need you to be there. And I think it’s different. Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. So does,
Leanne: 43:36 it’s going to be challenging. I’m just sitting here going, who do I know, you know? But
Heather: 43:41 yeah. Well maybe be an actor. What is it? Okay. So what
Leanne: 43:49 snacks for you and what can we, what can we be on the lookout for? Where heather is, what,
Leanne: 43:55 what do you see in your next couple of years? You know, it’s interesting. So I just got back from Vegas with a friend that I spent three days locked in a hotel doing a strategy on my life and usually not what we think of Vegas. I know people like, Oh, you just imagine me in yoga pants sitting in a hotel room with like pieces of paper all day like that. That was me. And then I will go downstairs to get coffee and come back upstairs. Um, I, yeah. So I really had to look at my life because this last breakup, really a headache and we use the word break in reality because I had this vision, right? We were building this life together and uh, when that ended, it really ended this whole kind of imagine, imagine like a Disney story, you know, and the whole thing just kind of shatters in front of you.
Heather: 44:49 That was my experience of this last breakup. Like everything. I thought that I was great. Everything I thought, who he was, everything that I thought was real just blew up. And so I’m left with me and now I am single and now I am. I don’t have any kids. I’m completely free. I can do whatever the hell I want. If I want to move to Bali, I can move to Bali, you know, I’m really freed up on such a heart. Look, my fault. My mother passed away a couple of years ago, so I really have no responsibility whatsoever. My sister is here, but she’s fine. I’ll come visit our Christmas, she’ll, she’ll be fine. But so I’m in this very weird space. I feel like I’m 21, you know, when you’re 22 or 23 years old after to college and you’re like now, right. That’s what I feel like, you know, is that time when you just got to college or something somewhere around then and you’ve got.
Heather: 45:40 You don’t have a dog, you don’t have a cat, you don’t got a husband or a boyfriend or a girlfriend and you just got. You’re just like me and my bags. You know what I mean? That’s where I feel like I’m in and so I’m in this very weird space of cool space to create from nothing and I’m really taking advantage of it. Like what do I really want? And honestly I have a mission and my mission is pretty big. My mission is to have every single woman on the planet and the planet get who they are and to be financially free. It’s really huge mission for me because it comes from all the stuff we’ve just talked about and that when you empower one woman in the third world country, it doesn’t matter. When you empower one woman and teach them how to teach her how to create her own commerce, sometimes there aren’t jobs, but teaching them how to create their own commerce, which is what micro loans is about, which is I’m going to create basket wavy, I’m going to sell it, and then I’m gonna.
Heather: 46:44 Use the money to feed my family. When you empower one woman, that woman impacts at least three to five people. The elderly’s in her family, the children’s she has to take care of, right? You don’t have to tell a woman, hey, the money you earned when you please go feed your children. You don’t have to tell a woman that. That’s not something you have to tell a woman that in some world, third world countries, you have to tell a man that, hey, will you take the money to go field, future, wife and children? So when you empower one woman, you empower and you literally have an impact of feeding the world. There was actually a study that it was a hunger project and the hunger project asks the question, what is the number one under utilized resource on the planet, but if we fix that, we would end world hunger.
Heather: 47:36 That’s a question for like years. The number one under utilized resource on the planet. It’s not water, it’s not oil, it’s not even food women, and it was out of that question, that microloans, real created hunger ending world. Hunger is about empowering women to be entrepreneurial and that’s what I want to do is I want to be out there in the Philippines and in Bali around the world teaching women how to be entrepreneurs and how to empower themselves no matter what their skill set is, no matter what language they have, no matter what their authenticity is, how to actually empower themselves. Because what I know when a woman is empowered and she has her own money, she makes different decisions because most decisions, and this is America too, by the way, this is a woman too. This is women I know. I know women who are extremely wealthy, meaning they live in big houses.
Heather: 48:34 Who make decisions based on the fact that they don’t really have control of the finances. Someone else. Yeah. Okay. We see them in this in a beautiful house and we see them in the lexus and we see them with their nails done. But I also know that a lot of them just get what I call a, you know, an allowance and allowance. Yeah, that’s crazy. But they do. And so we think, uh, with MSP wealthy, that doesn’t really mean the truth. So the moment we start empowering women to understand money to, to make their own money, to empower themselves, that is what I think everything will shift, right? That’s my mission in life. And so, you know, if a guy wants to come along, that’s cool,
Leanne: 49:19 better prepare themselves.
Heather: 49:21 I mean, I got, I got three more books and via go to the book coming out, I got my podcasts and radio is only 65,000 downloads. I want a million. Um, I, I really am kind of in this huge, um, shift of, okay, well this is not how my life is going to go. I’m not getting married with kids. So let’s go big.
Leanne: 49:44 That’s fabulous. I’m excited to see what you’re doing and your next book and all you’re doing amazing work and I, I wish nothing but the best for you and you’ve been through a lot. You’ve learned many valuable lessons, that’s for sure. I mean you’ve been super successful and what a great way to put your energy towards and taking care of yourself. And I appreciate you taking the time to share all of this and being vulnerable and being open and honest. And let me ask you all these questions, these probing questions into your personal life. Um, but it’s, it’s fascinating. You, you’re doing wonderful things. You’re, you’re just, you know, a go getter. I see your posts
Leanne & Heathe: 50:28 all the time and it’s just like you’re just nonstop. So hats off to you and all that that you have learned. So thank you. I really appreciate it. Thanks for this space. And um, yeah, I’m sure this will really, I don’t know when I’m hopefully really like out there like that interview she did dogs about her bath live. Um, I’m sure it’ll come up and, but here’s the intention of why I shared so much is that, number one, I have a fear of rejection, so I want to be able to get past that and just share the truth. And number two is I hope that me sharing all of this impacts and helps one woman in wherever she has one woman or man to say, hey, if she went through that, I can go through what I’m doing. You know, she had the courage to leave that relationship or move away from the situation even when it was scary than I can do it too. Right? That’s really the whole point of giving people permission to go after what they really want in life, when maybe everything around you is telling you you shouldn’t do that, you know, go do. So that’s what I suggest. Awesome. Well thank you so very much.