Episode 071: Sexy Boss Part 1 of 1
Episode 071: Sexy Boss Part 1 of 2 with special guest Heather Ann Havenwood
Heather Ann Havenwood returns! We continue our conversation, picking up at her awesome calf-roping analogy. Heather was named by Huffington Post™ as one of the ‘Top 50-Must Follow Women Entrepreneurs’, is an Entrepreneur.com contributor and regarded as a top authority on digital marketing strategies and online business sales systems. Heather is a fierce and independent woman who happens to be a child of divorce and survivor of three engagements.
Leanne & BF: 00:00:09 Episode Seventy One, I am your host, Leanne Linsky, and I’m The Boyfriend. Welcome back to another wonderful week of divorce. They just keep coming and we’re excited to be here. Every time you guys. While you’re out there tuning in, make sure you rate, review, and subscribe while you’re out there not driving and you’re safely at a computer, your tablet, your phone check out life after divorce.com. We have all kinds of good stuff on there for you. So this week boyfriend, I’m really excited about our guest, uh, to catch everybody up. The last three episodes were a trilogy with Glen, Chris and misty or Glenn, Mistopher, or Christy Glen. It’s Kinda my Bradjalina-ing this whole thing. Anyway, those were our last three episodes. This week though is entirely different. It is. Yeah. And I, and I’m thinking this week, you know, I don’t know if we talked about norms (boyfriend “Norm! like cheers) where everybody knows your name, actually norms, you know, it’s kind of funny because when you think about it,
The Boyfriend: 00:01:20 you mean like normal, like what, what, what sort of happens in typical relationships?
Leanne: 00:01:25 Kind of what happens in typical relationships. But like, I think we’re um, you know,
The Boyfriend: 00:01:31 me, caveman me, grab woman in drag,
Leanne: 00:01:34 kind of like societal norms more so than anything else. Right. When you say which have changed, which they have changed, they have changed considerably, but it’s amazing because even when you get ’em equal in the more, or should I say more equal in the workplace or other areas of life that doesn’t always pan out in, I don’t think relationships on an intimate level have evolved as quickly as maybe things have changed for equality in the workplace.
The Boyfriend: 00:02:04 I don’t know. I think generationally there have been changes like, like parents in the fifties or different thing.
Leanne: 00:02:11 There’s definitely been changes, but I think places changes have evolved more in a workplace than they have at home.
The Boyfriend: 00:02:18 Maybe quicker. Yeah. Because you can change over a five year span in a workplace where I, again, I think the changes to relationships or generational, you sort of see how your parents were or you learn things in high school and that sort of your trajectory of a relationship as you go through your life.
Leanne: 00:02:35 Exactly. I think it’s much quicker change happens outside of the home. To your point, I think it’s very generational because I think we, we learned so much. Yeah. I don’t even know how to explain that, but yes, for instance, like I think women have a, uh, if you look at gender roles in the workplace, women are more equal in the workplace. Not every workplace, but definitely has progressed, right.
The Boyfriend: 00:03:02 Getting better, getting better differences in pay. There’s still differences in. There’s still room for a lot of improvement. The ceiling is still not completely been broken.
Leanne: 00:03:12 Right. So, but at home it seems like it’s moving, it’s definitely changing, but at a slower rate, a slower pace.
The Boyfriend: 00:03:21 So like our parents when they were, when they were courting each other and then eventually getting married, there was a role for the woman in the house. There’s a role for the man in the house and that was the accepted norm of the time and it’s still, we see it in our parents now and they’re in their late sixties, seventies and eighties now. So we see that you can use.
Leanne: 00:03:45 Yes, very different. Yeah, it’s very different from generation to generation,
The Boyfriend: 00:03:51 the way our parents interact with each other and that would not be how our friends would win. Are married friends would interact with each other.
Leanne: 00:04:00 Well, I don’t even know if it. Yes, I think the roles, I think their interaction can be similar, but the,
The Boyfriend: 00:04:07 the actual roles are different. The other still loving relationship, right? There’s, there’s different ways that, that, that, what your job is in that relationship versus a,
Leanne: 00:04:19 your responsibilities. Who’s responsible for what and I think when it is, so that’s one thing in marriage, but when it comes to dating, like I think that’s where the, the we’re transition and how does, what does that look like? Because as much as,
Leanne: 00:04:39 um,
Leanne: 00:04:41 I don’t know, I think as a woman myself, as a woman, I’m wondering, I don’t remember a time where I’ve really asked a man out,
Leanne & BF: 00:04:52 wow, yeah, maybe, but I don’t. Oh wait, yes, I do. I do. I do. It was a turnabout dance because I asked one person out, Sadie Sadie Hawkins thing and I was like, oh. Someone was like, oh, so and so wants to go with you. I was like, okay. But I, I was. Someone else had been, kind of floored me. I thought, well, I kind of indicated that I was going to. So I had asked him and he was like, no, I’m not really into dances. I’m not going to go with you. And so I was like, really? And he was like, he was like, yeah, and I was totally shut down. So my friends were like, why are you so and so? He wants to go, and I was like, good call. So my mom was like, hey, just fine. Hey, if why waste your time moping around on someone who said no, go with the person who’s actually interested.
Leanne: 00:05:38 I go a good point. So within five minutes I picked up the phone and actual wall phone with a ct and I picked up the phone and I called the other guy and I asked him and he was like, yeah, absolutely. I’ll go as I go. Okay. See at school by on up, five minutes after that, the first guy called back. He goes, you know, I think I made a mistake. I really do want to go you. I was just nervous. I’m like, sorry, I found another date. He like, that was like 10 minutes ago. I was like, yeah, no, sorry. No, yeah, within 10 minutes I had already found someone else in the first guy was like, what?
The Boyfriend: 00:06:13 But, but back to the dating and the roles. So there’s.
Leanne: 00:06:17 And I think that’s the only time that I’ve asked somebody out and into your point. Going back to that is how, how often really do women ask men out versus men asking women out? I feel like we put still put that on the man.
The Boyfriend: 00:06:32 Well, in our generation we can do, but I think in the, the coming generations that are the millennials and those, I think it’s changed a little different there.
Leanne: 00:06:41 Is it a drastic change or has it changed a lot? That’s what I can’t answer that I am not one of them.
The Boyfriend: 00:06:48 So you, you, that’s the only person back in high school dance, there was a high school or is the junior high and high school? It’s the only time we’ve asked someone else. So everyone else has asked you about since then?
Leanne: 00:06:59 Yeah, probably. I don’t think anybody else. So.
The Boyfriend: 00:07:02 Alright. So what is the difference between a woman asking a man out versus being asked out? Is there, does it set a set a different trajectory for the relationship? Because if you’re more in charge and you’re the one who wants the guy to be with you versus
Leanne: 00:07:20 the guy chasing you chain like. Yeah. Why? Yeah. Why do I, why don’t I just pick somebody instead of. Instead of me going, oh, I hope you really liked me, what do I gotta do to get them to notice me and get the personnel? Like it just never dawned on me until it was like an actual dance where the girl had to ask the guy, but other than that it’s like really? I never put that much thought into it
The Boyfriend: 00:07:47 but play it out. So if you actually, how would that change the way you went about your dating an individual? So you’re the one that asked them out. You’re the one that kept the relationship going. How does that change? How you interact or how you, what your role is in that relationship?
Leanne: 00:08:02 Yeah, I think I give them more probably now looking back on it. I don’t know for sure, but I would think probably that automatically kind of give someone more power. Right? Because they’re making the calls, they’re calling the shots there. They’re doing the planning and the inviting.
The Boyfriend: 00:08:22 Yeah. Well if you’re, if you get into relationship with someone that you asked out initially that may not, you may share those responsibilities, but
Leanne: 00:08:31 no, I mean in some cases some people may be turned around, but I had more. I’m thinking about. I’m like, Huh, you know, kind of like you could do kind of let. Well, and I hear a lot of women say that once in a relationship they realize they’ve given up a lot of other things that they psych slowly slips away.
The Boyfriend: 00:08:47 Well that’s, yeah, that’s sort of what I’m getting at. So if you asked the personnel, would you give up as much or if.
Leanne: 00:08:53 No, actually if I, if I thought about it more often, I would probably be more proactive and making other decisions as well.
The Boyfriend: 00:09:01 Yeah. Because then you’re the one that felt like, Hey, I’m the one that wants to be in this. I chose you, let’s figure out a way to make this work or let’s do it this way, and it gives you a little more of a, an active. I’m not saying no.
Leanne: 00:09:14 I wish I would’ve had this conversation when I was 16, but seriously, but I didn’t think about it that way then.
The Boyfriend: 00:09:22 Yeah, but I think you guys can tell us are the younger
Leanne: 00:09:28 generation millennial? I don’t know. Sorry. I’m going to jump in here. Boyfriend here giving me that look like I’m trying to get a question out there for our listeners. Oh, now I forgot what I was going to say. Go ahead. I had a really good point
The Boyfriend: 00:09:42 the train to ask our listeners. For the younger listeners that are out there, do you guys, the women out there, do you ask guys out and does that give you a different dynamic in the relationship? I think that would be more empowering to the woman that way.
Leanne: 00:09:57 Yeah. I’m trying to think. Every time we have an episode boyfriend, I’m like, wait a minute. I just had this thought, yeah, I did do this, or you know, I didn’t do that after an after we record a podcast. So I always feel like I have to, like,
The Boyfriend: 00:10:08 you’ve had 71 of these things
Leanne: 00:10:10 I feel like I’ve had to, um, I need to really amend. I’ll be like, oh, I’ll post something. Social media, my, my added thought on that and then I don’t have dementia. So I’m counting on you to wrap this up.
The Boyfriend: 00:10:28 So our guest this week is amazing, accomplished woman that, uh, unfortunately I didn’t have the chance to be on the interview. Uh, Leanne skyped with her. Uh, so tell us about heather.
Leanne: 00:10:39 Heather Anne Havenwood teaches coaches, experts and service providers, current online marketing and sales strategies to close the right clients anytime they want. She is regarded as a top authority and Digital Marketing, sales coaching and online publishing business strategies. Heather Ann has been named a top 50 must follow a woman entrepreneurs by Huffington Post. She has also been named chief sexy boss from her Amazon bestseller book, sexy boss. How female entrepreneurship is changing the rule book and beating the big boys and others call her the wizard behind the curtain. In 2006, she started developed and grew and online information marketing, publishing company from Ground Zero to over 1 million in sales in less than 12 months. In 2010. She started in, grew an online newsletter publishing company from zero to 1 million in online sales without a product. In 2015. She did it again from zero. Grew a weightless and weightless supplement company to one point $5 million in sales in 18 months, starting without a list, a product, a name or an offer, Heather Ann has the ability to create business packages, marketing lists and sales from the zero.
Leanne: 00:11:54 She is instructed and coached hundreds of entrepreneurs leading them down the path to success and building lucrative businesses from their knowledge and leveraging it online. Heather Ann currently is the author of multiple books including sexy boss. How the empowerment of women are changing the rule book for money, success and sex and power guesting. Heather Ann is now a nationally syndicated radio show host of The Win. Where she shares her incredible story of success and loss on the entrepreneur journey and her true happiness in a completely compelling and vulnerable way that audiences relate to and always learn from. She talks about achieving the winner’s edge, from losing it all and discovering her true passion and owning her own business and serving your clients by helping them achieve their goals. Heather and haven would is a smart and savvy business woman who is now stepping out from behind the curtain to educate and enlighten, empower all entrepreneurs to grow or start an online business and live a fearless and fulfilled life. Be You. Be Real. Be The boss of your life. Without further ado, I’d like you to meet heather and even with
Leanne: 00:13:18 heather. Welcome to life slash divorce podcast. This will be fun. Yes, I am very excited that you’re here. I know we’ve talked and worked on the scheduling and talking about bringing you on for some time and I, and I know when we spoke before, you have quite, quite a story to share, so excited to hear everything and I know our listeners are going to truly appreciate this because you’re a real go getter and
Heather: 00:13:45 thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you.
Leanne: 00:13:47 You’re welcome. So I guess, um, to start now, you have not been married or divorced, correct? Correct. Technically. Right. And I know you mentioned that um, the, a lot of what’s happening and going on probably currently is somehow affected at some point about other relationships that have impacted your life. So why don’t we start kind of like at the beginning of what that looks like and I believe that’s with your family.
Heather: 00:14:18 Yeah. So I mean, like you said in the intro and whatnot, you know, I am an author, a speaker, and I’m kind of, I’m a go getter and I am out there a lot and whatnot. And I think a lot of that, the reason I’m bringing that up is I really think that a lot of that has to do with my kind of overachieving. I would say. I don’t think I’m overstating, I think I’m underachieving. However, some people look at that differently. Um, I think a lot of it has to do with my upbringing and the divorce. So just again, to give you a, like a pitcher, ask view of like how I grew up. So I grew up in Houston. I was born the mid seventies and then my parents were married. My Dad was in the oil business. And from what I understand, you know, again, I don’t remember it necessarily, but I remember like supposedly we were well off supposedly, right?
Heather: 00:15:02 You were in upper middle class and the burbs and a big house custom home. And then around age six, right. My parents started getting a divorce and it became extremely messy. So I was in Houston, Texas, which is Harris County, which is very large city. And my parent’s divorce was the first jury divorce trial and all of Harris County because it was a custody battle and it was obviously a lot of property and a lot of money. So why? So they say no. We actually ended up, uh, parents divorced. My mom got full custody and we were constantly struggling. I mean, it was constant money struggles because my father then, um, you know, withheld, right? Withheld, got married quickly. So they started, they just give you a timeline. They started this operation, 81 divorce final 83. He remarried at 85 new baby from his new wife, 85, 86, 85, 86.
Heather: 00:16:00 So he started a family quickly. And while we were constantly struggling. And the reason I’m bringing that up is, is I think that has a huge effect on my life now. My sister is three years older than me. She’s close to 45. She’s not married. She isn’t that have kids. I’m not married, I don’t have any kids. And I’m not saying that, you know, maybe just might be life circumstances, but both of us had to learn quickly, had to raise ourselves up. My mom was struggling, working. She was not bred to work. She was bred to be a mother and take care of her babies and to take care of her husband. So she didn’t know anything about finances or anything about business or anything about work. She knows nothing. So when she was thrown into the workforce she was clueless and she pretty much went from job to job, struggling to struggling.
Heather: 00:16:50 And he was also kind of um, uh, called the scarlet letter. I remember growing up in my, like six or seven or eight years old and seeing these women that the house was like three of them and they were like the women in the area that were divorced, you know, and everybody was just like, oh, your parents are divorced. I’m sorry, you know? And we tried to keep up with the Joneses and have the house and all that. As long as we could, I guess to parents were paying, you know, dad was paying for that for awhile and then all of a sudden, you know, pulled it with a new wife came in, right. And then all of a sudden we’re living kind of not in the burbs anymore and trying to keep up with the Joneses. And so my sister and I had to learn, um, how to make her own many quickly at the sort of like, you know, 13, 14, she was having a job.
Heather: 00:17:36 I was job was on 15 and I say this in a weird way. I look, here’s the thing, let me be straight about it. I did not grow up in the ghetto, right? I, I’m not African American, I’m white. And there’s a different kind of stigma there because when you’re in the burbs and white, everyone’s doing well and you’re not. You have to hide it, you know? Versus like if you were in the ghetto, no one’s doing well and you weren’t doing well, like that’s cool. You know what I mean? Like everyone around us was doing well. So we were constantly having to hide the fact that mom was divorced and then we weren’t having any money, you know, so we’re constantly in this battle. So I think that’s why my sister and I are hardcore in our career. We have on money. She has her own house.
Heather: 00:18:17 She. No we don’t. It’s just very independent and I’m mother kind of honed that in our, our heads mainly because she didn’t know how to be independent. So I think that’s major made a huge impact in my life and my sister’s life as well. So, um, yeah, I, I guess I’m a little too independent for my Britches, so I’ve been told by men and I’ve engaged gauge three times in. The last one was recently, it was a big, huge, massive divorce slash business divorce and I can get into that later, but I really think that when my point. Here’s my point, my point is it doesn’t matter what your ethnicity or your color skin or where you grew up, divorce can have a huge impact with the kids. And even now when I do date, I’m extremely sensitive. If they have kids, I’m like, don’t, I don’t want to meet them.
Heather: 00:19:16 I don’t want to meet them for a long time until you and I have a relationship. If we do, then fine, but if not, I’m not getting the kids involved because at the age of six I was thrown a stepmom like, here’s your mom, here’s your new mom. And I’m like, who’s this chick? You know, so, and I, and she’s been in my life ever since. Not In a good way. It was never a good space. We don’t have a relationship at all. Um, I think that one of the challenges I deal with as an adult and I think people did today, they, um, they don’t really get the impact of having parents or adults go in and out of a child’s life. They think as we, as adults, we can cope with it and kids don’t cope, cope differently, you know, they cope differently.
Heather: 00:20:02 So I think they don’t take in consideration how the kids feel, you know, they just have to deal with it. Here’s your new parents, deal with it. So I think that I’m very hypersensitive to that, extremely hypersensitive to that. Whenever there’s a kid involved, um, I’m, I’m, I don’t get attached. I try not to do that just because it’s more of an impact for the kit, right than me because it’s like, at the end of the day, it’s not my saw my kid and I don’t want to step in and go, I’m your parent now because I had that. I had a bunch of that growing up. Like I’m your father down like in, what’s your name? I’m sorry, Barry. You know. So I think that uh, it’s made a huge impact in my life today as a career woman. I am now a very strong independent businesswoman and I think it’s because of my mom just didn’t know anything about money so we had to figure it out. Okay. Yeah.
Leanne & Heathe: 00:20:57 Okay. So there’s, there’s, there’s no, this is not like, oh this is great stuff, but there’s a lot here and there. Been to therapy for years. Well, I’m mostly curious because I come from a background where my parents are still married. They’ve been married for
Heather: 00:21:18 no since
Leanne: 00:21:20 61. Right. So they’ve been married for forever my eyes and, and um, so some of these things I’ve never experienced and I’m kind of curious, like it’s what I found interesting is that your dad’s on someone right away, but they’re still together to this day and
Heather: 00:21:38 I’m unhappy. They’re not happy. Let me just be clear. So he cheated, cheated on my mom with her. So yeah. So that’s how he didn’t find one writer. Right. He was already with her during the divorce. So he, he was cheated on her and cheat on my mom with this woman who’s now been my step mom for 30 years.
Leanne: 00:21:58 Right. So did he, when you met her at the age of six, did you know
Heather: 00:22:04 that you know, he left? No. In fact, I, it was interesting. It was like six years old. I remember the day. I remember the moment is one of those moments where I was six years old. I’m like, I’m copied on the couch in his new, in his, like really cheesy apartment. He just moved into across the street kind of thing. And I’m, I’m like having a couch. He’s like, this is Chris and they’re all, sorry, her name is Chris. I don’t care. Um, so they looked at each other, I’ll let you know, like love. And I was like, okay, you meet, you know, I’m a six. Right. And, and they look at the pool. Okay. So I believe that for years, I mean years and I, one day I said something, I’m like, 14 years old is me and my mom, my sister, and they, I was like, no, they met at the pool just like a stupid girl.
Heather: 00:22:49 And they both lived to be like, really? Are you that, you know what I’m like, did I, is something that like, um, yeah, they, he was, because they were banging, banging her, that’s why they got divorced because he basically said, no, I’m going to still be married to you and I’m still going to have a check on the side, deal with it. And my mom said, no, I’m not gonna play that game. You’re out of here. So yeah, she was, she was at the time my step mom when he was banging her, she was 22 being a 40 year old man with two kids and broke up the marriage. So now what’s interesting about that is I believed the lie in that moment and quickly learned that these are 13, 14 the truth, which really skewed my life because I had this, you know, had this, my dad is everything, you know, this is what you doing little girl and your dad is everything and I love my daddy and there was this moment like, oh, he’d lied.
Heather: 00:23:48 It’s been lying to me for years. And what’s really interesting about that is that to this day, like, I’m sure he has two kids, my two half brother, half sister. I’m sure they will not listen. However, if they do, they do not know that truth. They do not know that they actually, he, they actually think that the kids still to this day, it’s been 30 years, still think that that didn’t happen, that they met by the pool or something. Like it’s just crazy. So kids from her belief that my half brother, half sister still think that, I don’t know. They met by the pool or something. Have you ever had conversations with them about this? No, I feel it’s not my place. Right. It’s like out. That’s their life. That’s their bed. What? Who am I do like if they want to live that life, the rest of their lives, like that’s on them, right. It’s not my job to, by the way, her mom was 22 and broke up a marriage, but it would totally break their view of their mom on some level and it’s not my place. Is there a big difference in age?
Heather: 00:24:50 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. There are about 12 years apart. Twelve. Well yeah. So I guess I was doing the wrong. She was 22. They got married so add 12, right. So 30, 33, 34 when they got married. Super Young.
Leanne: 00:25:03 Hm. Okay.
Heather: 00:25:05 So yeah. So she was 30, she was, she was 22 and I think my dad was at 12. Thirteen years. So what is that? Thirty four. Thirty five. Okay. So he was 35 and then they had kids right away. Right away. But what’s the age difference between you and the other siblings that has the, my half brother. Who’s first? How old was I? I was like nine. Ten was
Heather: 00:25:34 10. So he’s 32 ish. And then the next one came quite fast after that I was probably 13 when that one came. So she just got married, supposedly will at least say let’s what I hear. Uh, we’re not invited. We’re the, we’re the other family. Um, he, he, he just like, does he? My father just chose. Okay. That whole first thing that didn’t happen so we’re just going to drop that were to start over. So in, in his view at anyone that knows him in his life, we don’t exist. My sister and I and we just don’t exist. He just dropped us like rags and that’s been a huge impact obviously and how I see men obviously and how I see people and how I see relationships and all that. So, um, I think Michelle is like 30. She’s 39, 43. Okay. So they’re like, there’s, there’s quite an age range difference between you and his new children.
Heather: 00:26:33 Yeah, a decade. A decade. Yeah. So, and did you guys live now? You had mentioned to you originally had moved to an apartment nearby and then we went with this woman and did they live in the St? Continue living in the same town they did for, um, they moved into. We’re in Houston, so they moved obviously to a nicer home eventually, but they lived there until they got married to the first kid happen. So the a six, he moved into Florida, to southwest Florida where she is today. So I spent most of my life going between Texas and Florida. That’s another thing that really, man, you talk about, just a pain. So I lived by this thing called the divorce decree. I mean, when I lived by it, it said on the divorce decree that my father technically had me at 12. Oh, one on Christmas Day, like midnight.
Heather: 00:27:29 So I had to get out of stupid plane on Christmas Eve for many years because my father would yell and scream my mother. And so I’m on Christmas Eve, I’m Janot suited applying, or Christmas Day I’m on a plane to Florida just so he could say, ha ha, I have you. And I’m like, okay, I’m here. You know what I mean? So he lived by that like I have, um, then you get me now. And he didn’t really want me. He just, it was all a control mechanism. So I remember my mom saying, well, the divorce decree said. And I remember growing up when I was older, I was like, okay, so some judge in 1983 makes up a piece of paper, caused the divorce decree and then I have to freaking lit by this damn thing for 20 years or 15 years or whatever, you know, like, this is crazy.
Heather: 00:28:18 What was your birthday on Christmas Day? Oh, it was always Christmas. Yeah. It was like, you know, the whole taste. And so he just decided that was the holiday that he gets here. So therefore that’s when you have to get on the airplane. I mean, I spent so many years Ghana planet, Christmas Day, Christmas Day for no reason. It wasn’t like, you know, it could have waited til the 26th or 27th and I had my friends, you know, how it is when your holidays, you know, 13, 14 years old and you want to stay at home and your friends and he would force it, he’d force it. And my mom’s like, sorry, taking you to the airport. So I, you know, whenever I hear the word divorce decree, I just like cringe, right. Um, and whenever I hear parents say things like, why technically by the divorce decree, I have them on every other weekend.
Heather: 00:29:13 I was like, can you just like really get the kids world, you know, that might not work anymore for them. That might be when they’re 14, they, maybe they have a tennis tournament and that just doesn’t work for them anymore. You know, like you just need to really get out of your own head as an adult and it’s not about you. Right? It’s about like what’s best for this other human being called a child. And I know for myself that just didn’t happen. My father, his, that was very abrupt. My sister at that point had just pretty much like, I’m not doing anything you say and was the rebel. So I got that. One
Leanne: 00:29:50 question is, did you guys handle these things the same way? So. So she kind of rebelled against.
Heather: 00:29:58 Yeah, she was older, so she did the big excuse f kind of thing. Like I’m not doing anything you say kind of that. So I was the good child that would backup for the backup for the backup fourth and my sister did the rebuttal thing to him around when she was 16, 17 and pretty much stayed that way for ever. But I’ve been, I was for years, almost a decade or so after that, back and forth, back and forth, the bridge. I had to kind of keep the peace. I was the peacemaker, right? Like I love my mom. I love you too, dad. I love you. Mom. And I tried to do the whole piece thing for years. And then, um, I, I finally saw the way I saw this, this is insane, but it took me a long time because I didn’t want to believe that he did a lot of things that he did.
Heather: 00:30:45 I didn’t want to believe what he was doing was truthful. I didn’t want to believe the things I was hearing. Right? And my mom was one of those people like, here’s what he’s doing. And if you choose to go with them, that’s fine. You get to choose the relationship with them. You get to choose how you see him. I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna diss him and I’m going to tell you what he’s doing. That’s how she took it. She was like, I’m not gonna sit here and tell you he’s a horrible piece of ass or whatever. I’m just going to say here’s what’s happening, right? You get to choose how you want the relationship to be. And if you love him, I know you love him and I’m not going to stop you. And here’s what’s happening and have a good trip to Florida. You know, like kind of like I want you to have a relationship with him and you also need to know who he’s been in the background.
Leanne: 00:31:33 Right. All right. And make your own determination of engulfed. So your sister was older so she probably. It makes sense. She saw a different, a different side to him that it took a while and I told him I get both. How are you guys would see it because for different reasons. So. So now that you guys are, are older and have been on your own and have time to reflect and you been dating yourselves and stuff. Yeah. So you said it took a while, about 10 years or so for you to realize like, oh my gosh, this guy, um, what, when that finally happened, how did that shift other things in your life?
Heather: 00:32:11 Oh God, it was a uh, it was devastating. It felt like a divorce. I remember when it all kind of kind of what I call blew up between me and my dad because for many years, I mean honestly, the way, the reason I am, the way I am in business and a lot of ways I learned from him. Like I’m, I’m, I’m, I learned a lot from him for many years. He was kind of like my mentor in Business for strangely enough and I looked up to him a lot for all through college, uh, all of that. So I was trying to be dying little girl for many years and whatnot. So it actually blew up and around. Oh, eight. Oh nine. And um, and it wouldn’t be a little bit blew up and it done, you know, huge blow up. So when it blew up, I remember when it happened, it felt like a divorce because in a weird way, my, I had to relay, I think this will have happens with all, all girls and their dad.
Heather: 00:33:04 They have a relationship with their dad no matter, you know, there’s some relationship and if that ends abruptly, especially when you’re in your adult life and you don’t have a new man. And the whole idea about marriage, if you look at a marriage and the ceremony, right? You have the, you have the father who walks the woman down the aisle, the daughter and hands her off and say, I’m no longer, you know, I love her and I’m no longer responsible. She’s yours. Right? That’s the whole point. I mean, if you look at that whole ceremony was symbolic of that. When that break happens and it’s not like a, here’s to another person, it’s just a break. It literally feels like a whole of divorce. So I went through a, it was like a mat, it was like a divorce because it was a break in reality for me.
Heather: 00:33:55 It was a break in who this person, I thought he was, wasn’t handling, it was just all a facade. So, um, it’s a huge break in reality. And I was living with a guy at the time when it all went down and that didn’t go well at all. He didn’t understand and it was like a death, you know, like a gravy. I had to go through a whole grieving process. And divorces, divorces a grieving process is a death, right? It’s a death of something. So I was going through that and we, we, we ended up breaking up and he just, he actually said years later, I now understand what you’re going through. I didn’t get it. I didn’t understand you. You and your dad had a fight? No, it was not a fight. It was, it was an end date and a. and he’s like, I didn’t understand. It was like a divorce. It was like a grieving. I didn’t get it. I just thought were beat overdramatic.
Leanne: 00:34:47 So. So that was a gentleman. And you were dating him? Said that. So when you and your dad went through this, this ending of the relationship, father, daughter relationship, what did that blow up like with a big fight? Or did it just kind of happened where you didn’t speak any words? What, what did that look like?
Heather: 00:35:05 What did that look like? Wow, you’re going deep girl. I’m thinking about if I share this. Yeah, it was, um, it was, I was, I was, it was a time when I was at his home and I had just gone through a massive of a bankruptcy at my, in my, and I shared this story on my book. I have a book called Sexy Boston empowerment of women and I share my story of how I went from zero to million dollars in one year in business and then in 2006 and seven, the market fell, went upside down and I lost everything. So I’m sitting here at his house and I had just lost everything and I’m really trying to figure out my life, like I’m in this kind of like, oh my God, what’s happened? Right. And I’m really needing clarity. I’m needing parent. I’m needing somebody to say, okay, it’s got to be okay, let’s work this out.
Heather: 00:35:55 You know what I mean? Like that’s what I needed. And I’m on the computer like on the computer trying to figure, just thinking in my head, okay, how am I gonna? What am I gonna do now and what’s next for me? Do I get a job like, you know, all this stuff in my head. And he walked in and he started, he, he’s narcissistic because what I’ve learned is sick. And he just started going off about his life in the seventies and the sixties. And when he was in the army or sub this bs story, he’s a storyteller. And I looked at him. I go, no, I’ll be honest with you. I don’t care. I don’t care about what happened to you in the sixties or seventies. Like I just don’t care. What I care about is my life right now. I’m 30 something years old.
Heather: 00:36:32 I’m going through this. I need your help. I don’t need to hear about some stupid story. About 1965. Okay. I need someone to actually be a parent here. And he was like, get the hell out of my house. You’re done out of my life. And I was like, Oh really? Okay. Got It. And I left and he looked at me, he’s like, I don’t want ever want to see you again. And that was it. And he will not. My mom died. Both of his kids got married. No communication. Wow. It’s interesting because in that moment it was the one of the first few times in my life with him that I stood up for me like, no, no, no, I, I, I need help here. You know, I need a parent right now and I need you to be a parent. I need you to be a friend. I don’t need your drama. I actually need you to be in my world for a second. And it was his world of the highway and he just kicked me out.
Leanne: 00:37:28 And so, okay. So that’s
Heather: 00:37:31 crazy, right?
Leanne: 00:37:31 To be in that situation. And then I have an argument or a fight like that with your, with your dad. Right. And so, so, so you left or went home and then did you think like, oh, this is going to be repairable? Or did you know in that instant, like something was different about this particular?
Heather: 00:37:47 I knew something was different. I did reach out, I’m the, I’m the, I’m the person that had always apologize this company. So I did reach out like a couple of weeks later, like, hey, maybe let’s have a conversation. What happened, right. You know, let’s, let’s time’s passed and motions have dropped and I want to explain to you where I was at and why. I mean, you know, I’m in a, I’m kind of in a crisis over here in my life and I need you right now as a friend, as a, as a parent. And I was expecting or hoping that it would be more of an open. I get it. You’re going through a lot. I’m here for you. I’m your dad. Right? And instead it was a big Ole Faq. I don’t, you know, you’re not my child done with you who. And this is what’s interesting about that, like pattern is he’s done that his own brother. Years ago he did that. So my mom obviously he did it. So my sister years ago, I was just like the last one. So this is like a pattern he does. Like if you don’t play by his rules, you’re out of his life. It’s not like I’m mad at you for a minute. No, no, no, no.
Heather: 00:38:52 You’re done. So he only has one brother and they haven’t spoken and I don’t know, 30 years. Um, you know, he refused to talk to my mother. So when I see people who co parent, I’m like, wow, that’s fascinating to me. You know, parents will actually communicate. You’ll act. You actually talked to your ex wife. I find that fascinating because my father would not even speak to my mother for all during growing up all the back and forth. He went speakers. So I think it’s an interesting dynamic. He’s, he’s narcissistic, which I’ve learned. I didn’t know that. I’ve learned that in a couple years because I got engaged to narcissists. So there you go. That’s how that works. And I think that what it, what it forced me to be is extremely independent and extremely. I’m relying on myself and I know that I’m very aware of that. I have a very held hard time when people come into my life, especially men who like want to help me. I’m very like, what are you doing? Why are, let’s wait helping me. What do you need? Right? What do you want? Like, what is that?
Leanne: 00:39:57 What’s that? What do I have to look for? Red Flags. Yeah.
Heather: 00:40:00 Right. So, and I, I’m aware of that and my sisters, I wouldn’t say she’s the same, but she has similarity patterns, right? So, um, I think that the whole point of all this, it’s like, look, I’m like, I’m not perfect, right? I know that I’m at the same time in a weird way. I have to say I’m glad it all happen. I am because honestly I got thick skin and I’ve been thrown into the fire so much, so many times by people that I love and still love him. I still love my father. He, Dr My door today. I don’t know what I would do right? It new clue if he passed away tomorrow, I say I wouldn’t go to the funeral, but I probably would go. Right. So, I mean, I think at the end of the day, families, family, you can’t get to choose them and family happens for a reason, um, to make, to make us all who we are, you know, so I’m okay with that. And um, in relationships today. Yeah, I get guys all the time, like, you’re a little too much for me. Oh, I got it right. Yeah, we get it. I understand that. And
Heather: 00:41:10 this is who I am. Right. So,
Leanne: 00:41:14 so, okay. Is this, so now when did you realize that your dad was. Well, I have a pretty good idea. So yeah. So before this last relationship, so, so this all happened with your dad, you, um, and yeah. And you were having trouble with your business and then when did your first engagement
Heather: 00:41:34 come? Oh, my very first engagement was in my twenties actually to a very nice guy. Chris. Chris is a great guy. He’s still a great guy. Like when it’s one of those ones where I’m almost like you married Chris, Chris and you know, he the right, he’s such a, he’s such a sweetheart. And I loved it. I wasn’t ready for him, like I didn’t see as a good guy. I was so in my stuff, I was still, you know, I just didn’t see it. Right. And he’s a good person. He’s a good guy. Lives in Ohio, he’s married and I wish him all the best. Right. But uh, I was very young to 21 and he was 27 and I just wasn’t ready for all that and I didn’t get it. Um, and then I was married. I was engaged again around 20 9:30. Well wait a minute before we get to the second one, how did she know that you weren’t ready to get married?
Heather: 00:42:26 What was that moment like? How did that and like you were probably excited to get engaged, but then you’re like, no, you know, I suppose feel awkward talking about it. Because I was held, was I, when we got engaged, we met when I was 21, we got engaged. I was 24, 25 and I was at that time in my life where I was living in, in Fort Worth and I had a girlfriend that was, let’s just say I was a partier. I was having a good time in Dallas. I was going out a lot, having a good time and she was a liquor rep so that didn’t hurt. We for liquor everywhere together. She was my running buddy and I, I’m not saying that’s a fault or anything, but I definitely was having a good time and he proposed, um, and in the moment I didn’t say yes. My response was I need a drink at the time. And I remember just getting shit faced that night because I didn’t want to.
Heather: 00:43:35 I knew I didn’t love him the way he loved me. I knew he was a great guy. I knew he loved me, but I knew that I didn’t love him in that way at the level he loved me and it’s because I was young and I didn’t love myself. So how in the world am I ever going to let love in at that point? Right? But I didn’t understand that then I was young, so I’m, I’m recalling my girlfriend that night, a little tipsy and said, you know, Chris, I got engaged and she’s like, what, are you kidding me? You know, uh, he’s not the guy for you. I’m like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I’m engaged my mom for like weeks and I told my sister and then, uh, yeah. So, uh, yeah. And then how long was this engagement? We lost it about a year. Yeah. I mean, I was super sweet about it, but I gave him the ring back. Right. It was a long time. I mean, did you make progress and planning
Leanne: 00:44:32 a wedding? Oh No, no, no. Okay.
Heather: 00:44:36 Wow. Right. Great Guy. He’s a good person. And, but when you, when you don’t love yourself, when we don’t love ourselves, we can’t let love in. Right. And I was in a place that to understand that if someone said to me, well, you can’t love, he can’t love you because you don’t love yourself. And like what, you know and understand that was super young. And um, yeah, I think we all have our stuff. I’m actually glad I didn’t get married young. I know that. Here’s the thing, I knew I was bred to, as my mom said, there’s three things I want for you in your life. A marry someone really wealthy, have lots of babies and always look good when you leave the house. I was like, mom won a three. Ain’t bad, you know, so I didn’t have kids. I didn’t marry young that because that’s why I was bred to do. In a way. I was taught that like that’s your job. And I think a lot of that because I was taught that I would build against it. I was constantly rebelling. Whatever someone said I should do. I was like rebel right now. Um, I was in that role. I still am mean that rebel stage, right? Yeah, I get it. I get it.
Leanne: 00:45:41 So, so when you ended up breaking up with them, did you have to kind of have that moment of truth?
Heather: 00:45:49 No, I mean we broke up and it was actually in a really loving way and you know, it was sad. I still missed him. I, you know, we actually talked a couple of years ago and I was like, you know, you’re awesome and I still love you and you’re amazing and we just weren’t meant to be right. It’s all good and you’re back in Ohio and you’re with your family and you’re with who you need to be with and it’s all good. I think it was just a different path. Yeah. Good. Yeah, nothing. He’s just a good person. He’s a good person, but he wasn’t, he’s specific. He’s not supposed to be my partner. I know.
Leanne: 00:46:23 Well what. Okay. So then how long after that did you end up in your second engagement?
Heather: 00:46:28 That was pretty fast. It was something like five years of that we started dating a guy and we got engaged pretty fast. Um, so five years after Chris? Yeah, it for three, four, five years after that, quickly. It wasn’t too far. I got engaged and again it was, it was quick. We got engaged, um, and I moved to Houston for the relationship and then, um, he, uh, got a job in Seattle and um, I never really been out of Texas.
Leanne: 00:47:01 Well, no, so I go to Seattle, I’m like, oh my God.
Heather: 00:47:06 It was, yeah, there was a period of my life, to be honest with you, I was very sheltered and what life was like. So it’s actually happened. Good for reasons. So he actually ended up moving to Seattle and uh, left me in Houston. He broke, that, went off. He was the one who broke that off and actually it served me. It’s actually how I got into the business I’m in today. I actually ended up moving to Orlando, Florida randomly after the breakout because I didn’t have a job. I just left my job for him so I didn’t have a job. And so I went to Florida and I started traveling the country and that’s really where I got my teeth in life in business and I started traveling the country with four men. You talk about learning life quickly, right? So I traveled full time for two weeks out of the year, a city city to city to city every week, different city. I’m three days out of the week. It was nonstop. I was living out of a suitcase. I was traveling with all guys, learning the ropes of, of marketing, Internet marketing, speaking business is how, why I’m in the business today. This was in 2001 and he actually can’t flew back about a year, two ish after we broke up and saw that I was doing well and traveling and he’s like, okay, I’ll let you back. And I was like, no.
Leanne: 00:48:30 Yeah, probably thought, here’s this girl who’s never left Texas. I’m gonna. I’m gonna. Move on by. And then the next thing you know, you’re all over. I’m all over the
Heather: 00:48:38 place and I’m traveling and I grew up, you know, I got my big girl pants on and I started to learn the business and ropes and that’s about two years after that is what I’m doing my first million dollars online. And it’s been, you know, been in the entrepreneurship road ever since. So that’s great
Leanne: 00:48:55 cat. She’s like, wait, I can’t let her go.
Heather: 00:48:57 Right, right. Oops, just kidding. Right. And I’m glad that one happened to, he was a, he’s a good person that then nothing negative about him. Good person. Totally good person. Yeah. All good. But yeah, so,
Leanne: 00:49:13 so, so you’re doing, you’re doing great and you’re doing well, you’re successful. And when did you meet the third? This third one.
Heather: 00:49:22 That was a, the third engagement. So I’ve had obviously boyfriends in between then. Right. But a thought engagement was recently we met at an event, a seminar, because I’d been in the seminar industry in the information marketing and speaking in seminars for a long time and speak to myself and travel the country myself. So I was there at the event. I’m not as a participant and not working it. I was there actually to talk to the speaker, to the main person potentially doing a business deal. So we met. He was local here in Austin with me and within the first date he looked at me, he goes, I wouldn’t have married. I want to be married with kids, so if you don’t want that, I want to know now. I’m like wow, put on the table dude. And I think he said it right before I ate my steak. Right. So either. Anyway, it may be like puking up my steak and like, okay, but I, I was 38 and my business was doing well. I was settled in Austin and I thought, well, that makes sense. You know, he’s a good looking guy. Smart. As a doctor, he fit on the little text box profile.
Leanne: 00:50:32 Was he the speaker at the. But he was at that particular conference,
Heather: 00:50:38 the pen. So you know, he fit honestly. And that’s why this break has been so hard. Is he fit every day a box I had, right. He was an entrepreneur himself. He’s a doctor, but he was entrepreneurish. He, um, he was kind of a cowboy in a way. He’s got a farm like that, Texas. Good looking. We worked out together. We started building a business together. We were of the same page politically. He was extremely hot. I mean, there wasn’t anything at. I was like, things were good.
Leanne: 00:51:12 Right. So He’s a doctor, let’s call them. Let’s give them a name. Bob, Bob. Dr Bob. Great.
Heather: 00:51:19 Okay.
Leanne: 00:51:20 He sounds like this ideal person and he’s telling you everything you feel like, wow, okay. I wouldn’t have thought of that, but that makes sense.
Heather: 00:51:27 Right? Everything was kind of, I felt falling in line and yet we were, we had a hard time all of a sudden communicating about your two and we went into therapy just to kind of have a deeper connection, you know, and I was wanting to get closer and connecting more. We were having a hard time intimately connecting, you know, like in a world of talking and really just deep tech talking, but everything was fine. We hit his business and we are building a business. We went from zero to one point 5 million in sales with the new business that I built on, on top of his and that’s what I do, right as I said. So I was like happy and we were the perfect little couple in the gym and ever like, Oh y’all are so cute together. And he’s super good looking and in the gym. And I went to the gym, we went to the gym like four days a week together and everything was like picture perfect. I think it was picture perfect, but that wasn’t really kind of what was going on in the background. It wasn’t until after we got engaged, things started to get awkward.
Leanne: 00:52:36 So how, how many years into it were you? Did you get engaged?
Heather: 00:52:40 Two and a half.
Leanne: 00:52:41 Okay. So the first year was great.
Heather: 00:52:44 Yeah. First year to have a meat. It was basically two first two years. It wasn’t building the ring on the finger. Did things really alter, you know,
Leanne: 00:52:56 and what happened? What changed?
Heather: 00:53:00 Well, he’s a narcissist, which I didn’t know until afterwards and so anytime everything was fine. So in a narcissistic world, okay, everything’s fine as long as you play in their sandbox, sandbox is handled. I’m going to go over here and play and like creating the sandbox. Right. That’s why I started to do because I had dropped my entire business at the time and dropped everything and went into the sandbox. Imagine that is sort of building our business our future. Right. And he’s happy with that and I was making him money, right? Some. I thought it was us money, but he was controlling all the finances because I loved him. Then I’d let him, because you know it’s okay. Right? That’s where I went in my head and I let all my business savviness just go out the damn window. Didn’t call my lawyer and say, Hey, I think I would learn my first lesson because my first business partner from zero to a million dollars in one year as a business partner.
Heather: 00:54:02 Um, we went very well and I came home one day from prevent and everything was gone. That was in 2006 and seven. And my biggest mistake was I didn’t get a lawyer. So here I am now feeling like I’m a strong, savvy businesswoman. Years later, falling in love and I kind of pretty much did this exact same thing, but yet I still had a business attorney on speed dial and he still gets mad at me, like in, why didn’t you call me like, because I was jerry, you know, so I just trusted him that of course we’re getting married and we’re creating together. And so if things didn’t get, start to get hairy until the therapist was like, okay, look, you guys are engaged and she’s asking for the finances. I mean, you all both crane this money together, you won’t even let her see the bank account of the business.
Heather: 00:54:49 Like you, you got to figure this out, you know, you gotta let him whatever thing you got going on with this, like you’re about to get married. Like she wants to see the finances. This is not weird, you know? And that’s where it was like, oh no, you’re gonna be in my control and I control the finances, I control what you do and not do. And that’s where things started to get weird. And I’m like, I’m sold independent person. So I’m like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, whoa, Whoa, whoa. You know. Um, and so when I started to go, well, I’m going to start something else and on the side and start my consulting again or whatever. That’s when he was not happy and doubled downed. And then eventually, uh, from right underneath my nose while I’m dealing with like the heart issues, like I love him.
Heather: 00:55:35 And why are we connecting all that stuff. The background, he actually stole both businesses from behind my back and the. So that’s why we’re in business divorce. So yeah. Crazy. Yeah, I know therapy. I feel like I’m in a therapy session. No. Here’s why I’m sharing all this right now. I feel like this is probably going to bite me in the ass of the future. But here’s why I’m sharing all this. I think that this might say, look, you can judge me all you want, whoever’s listening and that is cool, but in my experience, and this is over a period of time and it gives probably in my view, in my experience, men say they want a strong woman. I call bullshit because they say they want strong. They say they want independent, they find it sexy. They like, yeah, that’s my look to your heart.
Heather: 00:56:25 But the moments like, okay, now what a relationship. You need to stop that. Now I cannot tell you how many men had told me that. Okay, now we’re in a relationship. That whole thing about like strong and independent. Okay, thank you. Can you can stop. You need to rely on me. I tend to be the man. You need to stop doing all that, you know, stop doing your business. Stop doing that. Stop doing this, stop doing that. It was all just a ploy to get me in. No, it’s actually not a ploy. It’s reality. So every time that I would, I called not be myself, which I call exactly what I did with Dr Bob is I dropped who I was for him. Every time I’ve done that, and that’s what the first one I did that and I know women who do that all the time, oh, I stopped my business or stop my career for the marriage or whatever.
Heather: 00:57:12 Every time that I do that, I am betrayed me. It’s not about letting something go for something. It’s portraying yourself. And so whenever I do that, I always find myself in hot water every time, every time, and I don’t care how society says that. Men Say we want an independent strong women. I really call bs because every time that I’m like, well, this is what I want, this is what I want to create. They’re like, oh yeah, that’s cute, but now you need to stop that because you’re going to be in my world and like, this is what we’re really going and it’s, it’s more than once. Even in dating right now, I see guys like, oh, it’s so sexy that you’re like that. But now like, okay, can you, can you laugh now? Like not be like that, you know?
Leanne: 00:58:03 Right. There’s going to be like that with me. You can be like that everywhere else.
Heather: 00:58:08 Yeah. And I’m like, that’s who I am. This is not, this is in the act, you know, I’m not an act, but yet I find it interesting when men say to me, Oh, I want someone who’s strong, independent and has a job, and I don’t want any women that are crazy.
Leanne: 00:58:26 That drives me bananas.
Heather: 00:58:29 Crazy. We’re all crazy, but there’s a difference between psycho and crazy. The part of me that strong independent. That’s kind of a crazy part. It’s wild. I’m a rebel. I got big energy now I’m not psycho. I’m not a go slash or damn tires. You know what I mean? Are we not going to throw a brick at your head? You know what I mean? Like I’m not like, I’m not psycho. There’s never been a man that said, you’re psycho now. They’ve said I’m crazy.
Leanne: 00:58:58 Crazy comes with a negative connotation. Like I’m not okay with men joking. Like, Oh, you’re just another crazy woman because if you listen to narcissists in general and talking to some people, they’re like, that’s what they’ll usually say. They’ll bad mouth or previous relationships with women and call them crazy. She was crazy and when you start defining other, your significant other is crazy. There’s just nothing good about it and I can’t interpret it to mean something. It’s not like if they want to say that I’m independent and I’m confident and I’m a go getter the great and call it confident independent and a go getter, but the word crazy has a different connotation and I think that’s like trying to. That’s a, that’s a negative hit and when those kinds of things start coming into relationship, that’s a red sign, like your, your, your partner or my partner.
Leanne: 00:59:55 That’s the last thing I’d want them to call me, like that’s a conversation we’re going to grab because I think too, the difference with men and women, and I hear you’re making a great point, obviously I’m like, wait, I have to step back for a second, but like when when I, when I hear a man called women crazy, it’s usually because she has some sort of emotional response to something they’ve done and when we have an emotional response that they don’t like because they typically don’t like confrontation or having to deal with feelings. They put us in the crazy category and that’s not acceptable. Having emotion and having feeling and having a response to something that has happened is not crazy. It’s called being a human and men and women are wired differently in many ways that in being in touch with their emotion and if men want to hide behind the crazy thing. To me that’s a, that that’s a red flag right there and then in this guy’s calling you crazy or no, we’re not going to work out
Heather: 01:01:00 and that’s. And it’s happened many times. You know? It’s like, well, the big one is I’m attracted to your sensuality or sexuality. You’re strong, you’re confident. They’re always attracted
Leanne: 01:01:14 because it’s the thrill of the chase. It’s a challenge. I’m attracted to it and I’m going to get you and then I’m going to make you stop doing that and boom, I win.
Leanne & BF: 01:01:24 So stay tuned. Next week when Heather compares her relationships to a Rodeo, what? Giddy up. Cowboy. Wow. You just have to tune in and find out.